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M-43 Air Force Ambulance
Posted: Fri May 04, 2018 6:08 pm
by TAK824
As I approach the completion of my M-43 project, I'm preparing to do the stenciling and logo's as well as graphics. I have a few questions, to which I have not been able to determine answers by searching the web. So, here's hoping some of the more informed on this site can help me out. My goal is to reproduce what SHOULD be on the rig as close to accurate as possible. For starters, it was assigned to a "station" not a base. It was assigned to a squadron/unit at that base. I have all that information. What I'm looking for are the "minor" things.
1. Did AF ambulances have the caduceus symbol on each side? I've found evidence that something was there, but is so obliterated as to be unreadable. If so, did they have the terms "U.S. Air Force Medical Service above or below it, or both?
2. Did ambulances have the hood number stenciled on them? I can find no evidence that this one did.
3. Did all A.F. ambulances have the word "Ambulance" with the smaller crosses (one each side) above the windshield, at the front of the roof line? I've seen both with, and without.
4. I've been told that ALL A.F. vehicles had "For Official Use Only" on them, but I can't figure out where it would go, unless under the caduceus's? Certainly not the driver's door since the spare tire would cover it up???
5. I do know that NO national symbols were placed on the ambulance anywhere, so no worries there.
6. Am I missing anything, or overdoing it? I want to make it as accurate as possible, without it going overboard and being "gaudy" so to speak.
Thanks everyone for helping me out.
TK
Re: M-43 Air Force Ambulance
Posted: Sat May 05, 2018 10:24 am
by k8icu
I don't have the answer but I did find these doing a google image search. I hope they help.
Scroll down to see USAF M43
https://hiveminer.com/Tags/ambulance%2Cdenver
Not an M43 but might be helpful
http://www.wheelsage.org/jeep/j-series/ ... es/lodxb5/
Not an M43 but might be helpful
https://www.tripadvisor.com/LocationPho ... ntana.html
This one you have to scroll way down the page ...way down...but the picture was taken in 1962... There is a close up of drivers side and then another picture from far away of two ambulances by an aircraft. May answer some questions.
http://www.atterburybakalarairmuseum.or ... -wing.html
This pic looks like it was taken on a active base.
https://doyleimages.smugmug.com/keyword ... -wD8jch7/A
What I am seeing is that just like the Army there were variations on how vehicles got marked. Probably just like the Army unit commanders had a say in how it was marked. I don't see any evidence of the caduceus being used. If you have one on your vehicle it may be possible that the truck saw service with the Army before being transferred to the AF and getting repainted and that is why the evidence of the caduceus is so obliterated.
Re: M-43 Air Force Ambulance
Posted: Sun May 06, 2018 6:58 am
by TAK824
Thanks, that helps. A few more pictures that I haven't seen. It appears that the Air Force did NOT use the caduceus on the sides of their rigs. Also, no hood numbers either. Some had the crosses and the word ambulance on the roof line in front, some didn't. Guess I'll go with a combination of what I've seen in the pictures. Should be pretty close, I would hope.
On the plus side, even though whatever was on the side was obliterated (probably when it was sold to the public) the station/squadron on the rear doors was not. It reads ADC, then 636 CAFS, then A2. I've been able to identify that as Air Defense Command, 636 was the unit/squadron, the CAFS was the Condon (Oregon) Air Force Station, and the A2 was "Ambulance number 2.
For all I can see and identify, this ambulance is all original, never having been painted since day one, and tie interior is pristine. Just the outside paint is very faded. Oh yes, the ID number for the rig is U.S.A.F. 53 K 774
Re: M-43 Air Force Ambulance
Posted: Sun May 06, 2018 8:16 am
by TAK824
Update: After looking at the ambulance on the Bakalar/434th museum photos, I think I have a match. In looking at the stenciling right behind the driver door on the side panel, I looked at the area on mine where something was obviously removed/painted over. It matches (in size/area) almost perfectly. And now that I know what might have been there, I started looking really close at my area, and think I can faintly see some dim outlines of some of the lettering. Oddly enough, in using the body reflector in the picture (a known size) as reference to the size of the stenciling, it's almost exactly the size as what was on mine. So.....bingo. I think I've got it pretty well figured out. Only item that mine didn't have (I don't think) was the small crosses and the word "ambulance" on the roof line over the windshield, and I've seen enough of them with it that I'm going to put it on anyway.
But, no caduceus, and no hood numbers, as they do not seem to have been used on Air Force rigs. So, they won't be on mine, either.
Thanks again for your help.
TK
Re: M-43 Air Force Ambulance
Posted: Mon May 07, 2018 1:44 am
by Cal_Gary
Would love to see some pix when you're done, Terry, so we can admire your hard work!
Gary
Re: M-43 Air Force Ambulance
Posted: Mon May 07, 2018 7:13 am
by TAK824
Copy that. Over two years of work, but hopefully it will be worth it. By the end of this month (May) it should be "photo ready" so I will send some pics of the "finished" (are they ever finished?) product. 
Then I can start on my Mighty Mite project.........!!!! 
TK
Re: M-43 Air Force Ambulance
Posted: Mon May 07, 2018 9:47 am
by m-37Bruce
TK, Were there any markings under the hood, such as, disco batt or anti freeze calculations?
Re: M-43 Air Force Ambulance
Posted: Mon May 07, 2018 10:27 am
by TAK824
Hi M-37Bruce. Markings under the hood? Well.........sort of! There is the usual stenciled warning about securing the hood so it doesn't fall on you. The batteries are under the passenger seat inside, and there were no markings there, but I will be installing new ones with what is appropriate. As to the coolant (anti-freeze) yes, there was a calculation.....hand written on the radiator shroud, stating the date, and the level of protection on that date, which the last writing date was 1980. It was protected to zero!
Re: M-43 Air Force Ambulance
Posted: Mon May 07, 2018 10:31 am
by TAK824
I did find one other stenciling which might be worthy of noting. On the cowl area, under the hood, just above the drip rail over the engine, I found a very faint marking, stenciled on apparently when it was new. The stenciling reads "CODE 4012" and that's it. Very very faint, but I could make it out. Any ideas, anyone?
TK
Re: M-43 Air Force Ambulance
Posted: Mon May 07, 2018 11:06 am
by m-37Bruce
I guess I better take a few pic's of mine?
Re: M-43 Air Force Ambulance
Posted: Mon May 07, 2018 11:39 am
by m-37Bruce
Another one for your battery area.
Re: M-43 Air Force Ambulance
Posted: Mon May 07, 2018 11:56 am
by TAK824
OK, I recognize the underside of the hood. However, I'm not sure about whatever the picture is of on the battery part? I'm guessing it's the bottom of the passenger seat??? The M-43 passenger seat is almost the same size as the driver side, in that it's a "single person" seat, not the wide one like the M-37 has. The bottom of the M-43 seat is also metal. I also notice that the hood is painted OD green?? But the underside of the seat (it that's it) looks like Strata Blue???
TK
Re: M-43 Air Force Ambulance
Posted: Tue May 08, 2018 9:48 am
by k8icu
TAK824 wrote:Update: After looking at the ambulance on the Bakalar/434th museum photos, I think I have a match. In looking at the stenciling right behind the driver door on the side panel, I looked at the area on mine where something was obviously removed/painted over. It matches (in size/area) almost perfectly. And now that I know what might have been there, I started looking really close at my area, and think I can faintly see some dim outlines of some of the lettering. Oddly enough, in using the body reflector in the picture (a known size) as reference to the size of the stenciling, it's almost exactly the size as what was on mine. So.....bingo. I think I've got it pretty well figured out. Only item that mine didn't have (I don't think) was the small crosses and the word "ambulance" on the roof line over the windshield, and I've seen enough of them with it that I'm going to put it on anyway.
But, no caduceus, and no hood numbers, as they do not seem to have been used on Air Force rigs. So, they won't be on mine, either.
Thanks again for your help.
TK
So you think it's the "U.S. Air Force, Medical Service" etc. "For Official Use Only" since that would normally be painted on the door, but because of the spare tire on the B1s it is painted on the body? That's cool if you figured it out. Yes post some pics when you can.
Re: M-43 Air Force Ambulance
Posted: Tue May 08, 2018 3:33 pm
by TAK824
Yes, based on photos and information I've received, I believe it is the "Medical Service" on the side of the body, not the door. And as a side note, on the M-43 ambulances, it didn't matter if it was the early one, or the later "B1" series, as both of them had the spare blocking the door. It was only on the trucks (M-37) that they changed from the bed to the driver's door on the B-1 series.
TK
Re: M-43 Air Force Ambulance
Posted: Wed May 09, 2018 3:15 pm
by rickf
Thanks to digital cameras there is a trick you can use to see the outline of old paint or decals or stuff like that. Spray the area with a fine mist of water and then take pictures from different angles with a digital camera. Extreme angles will show raised letters in the water. If you didn't catch it go with a bit more water and try again, unlike film the pictures are basically unlimited. I have found a lot of old markings through paint this way. Move the light around and try different angles, take the pictures even if you don't see anything with your eyes. Once you go over the pics you will be surprised what you see.