Matching paint

[VROD02]

So I went to the local paint store with the olive drab codes 24087 ect. They mixed up some that was not even close! repeat.PPG and Dupont codes were 10 bars off on the dark side. Lucky I brought my Data plate., they had a machine that took a picture , on the back side, and matched it perfectly. I was given the other 2 gals for free. My plan was to primer, red oxide then base coat with the mismatch and use the last gal. for finish color. I went this route knowing its a better finish than the gillespie. Just hope the sheen is close enought. I guess I'm trying to warn anyone about how hard it is to match this color correctly. The advantage of a newer style paint may not be a good trade off for a show rig when parked next to the "right" color. The old guy at the counter says its one of the hardest to do. I'm also eating a little crow, skimmed over David Ahl's book and its right there in the paint section. He definately has that part right.

[k8icu]

That's why for the money I'd just buy the Gillispie and be done with it.

Did they give you flatner to add in? When I had some 24087 mixed up about 15 years ago I had to add flatner to the mix when I got it ready to shoot. Other wise it would be technically 14087...i.e. glossy.

(this was before I was aware of Gillispie...lol)

[CGarbee]

In defense of the guy at your paint place, he most likely mixed you the CORRECT FS595B 24087 that is in his paint computer. It is the current mil-spec... Most likely, the color that you had on the back of your dataplate was the Vietnam era 24087 from FS595A.

Snippets from David Doyle's exacting post on Steelsoldiers give us some insite as to what is going on:

"BEWARE -- don't confuse colors with numbers. Today's Federal Standard is FS595B (it was adopted in 1989) - and there is a color 24087 listed in it. However, this is NOT the same COLOR as the Vietnam era 24087.


FS595 was adopted in 1956 and was the standard until 1968.
The applicable Federal Standard during much of the Vietnam war was FS595A (adopted in 1968).
Chg 7 was made to FS-595A, on January 1, 1984 was made. Colors 14087 and 24087 renamed to 14084 and 24084, 34087 renamed to 34088.
On December 15, 1989 the Federal Standard was revised, and became FS595B.

As can be seen here, the COLOR of FS595A 24087 pre 1984 is the same as FS595B 24084; FS595B 24087 is not the same COLOR as FS595A 24087. "

Gillespie does not stock (so neither RAPCO nor Army Jeep Parts carry it) FS595B 28084. If you are painting your whole rig FS595B 24087 from Gllespie looks and works really well. If you really want to be a stickler about it (especially if you are sourcing locally), ask for FS595B 24084.

If you want to see David's info on paint shades in depth, go to:
http://www.steelsoldiers.com/index.php? ... ic&t=15549

Those of us with USMC rigs don't have this problem as 34052 stayed the same color in all versions of FS595...

[k8icu]

Those of us with USMC rigs don't have this problem as 34052 stayed the same color in all versions of FS595...

Yeah that's because Marines get confused easily.... HOOHA!


Thanks for posting that about the paint. I had forgotten he wrote that.

[uglyranger]

Yer jealous, cause wimmen love those USMC dress uniforms

[knattrass]

That's just because they never met a real man that knew how to match his pants and his jacket!

[Lifer]

Ummm....I hate to say it, but the Army also has the same color coordination "problem" now. At least the Air Force and Navy still know how to coordinate their clothes.

[k8icu]

WOW....sorry I didn't think we'de go that far off topic....

So back to paint.....

Are you using an enamel paint or an epoxy paint? I used epoxy on my M151A2 that I restored in 4 color cammo and the epoxy was the base color 34079 and it was great lasted a long time..... only problem was if it chipped it would go down to the bare metal and take the primer with it.

[VROD02]

LMAO,Civilian here . My point was humility. I ripped on another post about the "book", and I wasn't listening. Once again the correct paint CANNOT be dupicated with todays paints . Lesson learned. I hope it helps someone else, wanting correct color. My truck is a 51, Korea, not Vietnam. But it doesnt matter ALL M series have the same color code being semi gloss not WW2 lusterless.

[k8icu]

Actually there is an intermediate color between WWII and the 1960s. It is dark green like 24087, but is greener than 24087 which has a brown tint to it. That is why some trucks look olive brown in some pictures and lighting and olive green in other. While the Korean color seems to be a more constant green.

Just thought I'd throw a wrench into your plans.... Sorry.....

[rixm37]

Do you know the fed spec number for that intermidiate color?

[CGarbee]

Do you know the fed spec number for that intermidiate color?

You actually can't order paint using the fed spec number that was used back then as it is no longer in use...

To quote a bit more from David's article on steelsoldiers (follow the link in my post above, or wait for his upcomming article in MV Magazine...)

"Before FS595 there was TT-C-595, which had numbers wtih 4 digits rather than five.

The TT-C-595 standard used a two-digit prefix to distinguish both sheen, and color. The prefix 24 indicates this color was a semi-gloss green (interesting, because the 24084 to be discussed later is considered a beige under the FS595 system). The last two digits in the TT-C-595 system are used to denote relative darkness of the color - the larger the last two digits, the darker the color. "

In oder to get the paint that was used prior to 1956 (when FS595 was adopted), you would ask for the "late" WWII olive drab in either lusterless or semi-gloss (depending on your preference, both got used). RAPCO and Army Jeep Parts both have marketed Gillespie made using FS595B to a COLOR that they claim is the same as what was used in late WWII/Korea, but they disagree on the name for it...

Army Jeep Parts currently is marketing a line of paints called the Long Olive Drab Line with colors based off Paolo Batisti's research into WWII colors...

Another gentleman is marketing paint with more modern chemistry that is formulated to match the shades that he found on lots of NOS parts that he had that might be worth looking into. See: http://www.tm9ordnance.com/

If I were going to shoot something in an ARMY COLOR from the early fifties, I would likely use a FS595B 23070... But then, I paint things in USMC Lusterless Forest Green (FS595B 34052) and don't worry much about the Army colors except when I am listing to David when we are having BBQ at the Aberdeen MV Rally...

[Lifer]

I wouldn't worry about finding an exact match, as long as what you end up with is a close approximation of the "real" color. In my long military career, I seldom saw a motor pool parking lot where all vehicles were exactly the same color. Many of them also had varying shades of the "same" color due to swapping or replacement of parts, etc.

The only trucks that actually matched were either brand new or had been freshly repainted.

If you want to do a "factory" restoration, by all means buy the "right" color if you can find it. If you want to do a "motor pool" restoration, don't worry about matching the colors.

[Rich]

vrod02,
I have used the TM 9 Ordnance paint. It is a urethane paint. I have only painted my windsheild frame with it. It matched the paint perfectly with the original paint under the windshield frame and in the doors. I was looking for the original color that the truck was painted when it rolled off the assembly line in 1951. TM 9 offers several other military shades.
Rich Szklany