going a different route... opinions wanted

[Josh]

Originally I planned on a cummins 4BT in my truck, but, I was perusing the local paper and stumbled on a complete, but disassembled-for-13-years big block 383... Unfortunately this got the gears turning (no pun intended) and I ended up buyig the 383. I'm not sorry at all I did, in fact, quite the opposite, because when I'm done, I have a feeling I might have the most powerful M-37 built. The crank, rods, and pistons on the 383 are trash from sitting apart (and a shame too, as they are factory steel forged units), however, the rest of the unit looks good. The block looks fantastic, and my brother has a set of 452 casting heads with hardened valve seats that are simply collecting dust at home... perfect.

I was putzing around, and stumbled on www.440cource.com A place that specializes in Chrysler big blocks. In fact, they don’t do anything else. They sell a stroker kit for the 383 that uses a 7.120" bobweight forged steel crank (read: drops in the block without clearancing, unlike the common 440 crank swap). It brings the stroke up to 4.250, from the factory 3.625, and at .030 over, makes 496 CI. The beauty of the kit is its 1800 bucks, precision balanced as an assembly to +/- 1 gram per part, and the parts are all forged, pistons, rods, crank. rods and crank are 4340 tool steel, I’m not sure what the alloy of the pistons is. The 1800 bucks also includes the rings, bearings, spiralox pin retainers, pins, ARP bolts, etc. Basically, everything you need to load your 383 with a forged, 496 CI bottom end.

I poked around on Holley's website, and for 1700 bucks, they make a 1000 CFM Multi-port injection system that is universal. You weld the bungs into the intake manifold of your choice. Fuel rails, sensors, ECU, wiring harness, ect. are all included. Perfect!

Next up: Boost. I think a pair of Holset HX40w's off of two cummins 5.9L diesels would be just right. I'll build my own manifolds from Sched. 40 weld fittings (did that for my turbo escort, worked fantastic and never gave me any issues). MSD ignition with boost retard, and the engine is done.

I figure, at 10 PSI, 496 CID will make an honest 750Hp, maybe more. The engine is the easy part, I’ve got that all planned. The hard part is the driveline. Obviously, my Dana 60's are staying. I’m going to lock the rear, and probably leave the front open for road manners, although, I could do the powertrax lockright in it... something to consider, especially since I have locking hubs, it wouldn’t be an issue... I’m just not sure how that would behave in a slip situation. More to ponder.

Driveshafts will be the 70's Dodge 3 or 3.5" thin wall monsters. If I break those, something is wrong. A driveshaft place in Green Bay does great work, I figured Id get them to put some 1400 series yokes on them when I have them shorten and balance them.

The issue is the transfer case and tranny. I’m going to run 40" tires, and with the flexibility of the big block RPM, I have options. Currently right now, I have around a 30* rear driveshaft angle. Id love to fix some of that when I build the beast, so A) U joints last longer, and B) I don’t break stuff as easily because of the angle. If anyone knows the answers to the below questions, please let me know!!

* Current divorced NP 435/205 -Both could use a good run through with a rebuild kit. Major problem here is rear driveshaft angle. Could marry the two, but that would require the use of a Chevy 435... Does the Chevy 435 have the same bellhousing mounting hole pattern? I could use a Chevy 435, with the dodge 435 input, and retain the dodge bellhousing and clutch setup, IF the Chevy has the same mounting to the bellhousing. This would easily be the cheapest, and strongest setup.

*Current 435, with Dana 300 case. I’m not sure if a D300 would survive behind an angry, twin turbo 500 inch V8. Something tells me probably not. Adapter is made for this conversion that would allow me to retain my current 435 instead of the Chevy 435. Plus side is the VERY short length. 22 inches long, giving me a good 12-15 inches of added rear driveshaft.

*NV4500/NP205. This would be a cool combo, as it could be lifted directly from an 87-93 Dodge diesel pickup. The big benefit is the overdrive 5th gear, which would be useful. Lakewood makes a Steel safety bellhousing that I know for sure will fit the NV4500 to a big block. I like the overdrive, and I like the safety bell… If anything blows up, it will catch the parts, unlike my current cast aluminum accident waiting to happen. The issue is cost. You’re looking at an east 2-3K for this setup. Another issue is length, I’m not sure if this would be any shorter then my current divorced setup. I *think* it would be, by a good 8-12 inches.

*NV4500/D300. D300 bolts up to the Chevy 4WD NV4500 with a simple adapter ring for a few hundred bucks. Does the Chevy 4500 have the same bellhousing mounting hole pattern? This would be an interesting combo, as it would be as short as the 435/300 combo, but gives me the Overdrive. Again, down side is the 300, will it take the power?

Right now, I’m leaning towards the 435/205 married combo, as I don’t consider my divorced setup a viable solution, due to the steep rear driveshaft angle it creates. I also have a sneaking suspicion the big block will need to be shifted backwards about 1.5” over my current 360, and that real estate I don’t have with the divorced setup, as the drive shaft place in green bay made me the shortest shaft they could for my current setup, and its 7.5” long.

I REALLY like the 4500/205 combo, that would give me the best of everything, but I need to find the length, and I need to verify that they didn’t do something stupid, like give the diesel 4500 a different bolt patter or input shaft or something… I would really like to have that 5th gear, and both the 4500 and 205 are proven gearboxes that will take the heat.

Thoughts?
[/b]

[philin mt]

Do thay import that much gas? I never saw a gas station a m37 didnt like with the stock engine, but with a high cube v8 maybe you better find a drop tank for the bed .....Phil in Mt

[Josh]

That was one of my considerations, but I figure I will put around 5-10K a year on the truck, and the difference in economy between the V8 and the diesel was negligible for me with that low a mileage.

[Josh]

I got it! NP435/NP203 combo. bolts right together (in fact, a standard package in 70's Dodge pickups) AND, here is the cool part, its full time 4WD, with the option of locked 4WD! An AWD M37 with a twin turbo big block! I love it!

[MSeriesRebuild]

I guess you must be a major stock holder in Exxon-Mobil or the like. If you are thinking you won't notice a fuel consumption difference between that gas hog & a Cummins 4BT, you are in for a real shock & awe surprise, it doesn't matter how few miles you plan to drive it per year. Good luck.

[Josh]

I guess you must be a major stock holder in Exxon-Mobil or the like. If you are thinking you won't notice a fuel consumption difference between that gas hog & a Cummins 4BT, you are in for a real shock & awe surprise, it doesn't matter how few miles you plan to drive it per year. Good luck.

Oh, I'm sure I'll notice, but, I dont have kids, don't plan on kids; I am (relatively, assuming you dont count the truck) smart with my money, and have no credit card debt, so, I think I'll be ok with the $1600 a year difference in fuel costs:

2 days a week to work, 100 miles on the weekend gives me 140 miles a week. Thats 480 a month, thats 5760 a year. Round it off to 6K, tack on 4 to make it a nice even 10K.

Diesel runs a 20% premium over gas. Lets say it gets 21 MPG with a diesel, 10 with the gas (and from what I've read on the 4BT forums, when you run much more then a 35" tire, over 20 MPG is pretty optimistic, but, we'll say 21 to give the diesel an advantage). Lets also say that gas is $4.00 a gallon, and diesel is 4.80 (20% premium, and it's coming, only a matter of time before it's 4 bucks a gallon). Now, @ 10K a year, thats $4K for gas, or $2400 for diesel.

One could argue that I could go an extra 6500 miles on the difference, assuming I used diesel, but, I honestly dont know where I would drive the truck 17K miles a year. 10K is all I'll ever put on a year, and since I don't have the aformentioned kids or credit card debt, the extra $1600 doesnt bother me. If I cared, I'd go buy a Toyota Prius.

[MSeriesRebuild]

I guess you must be a major stock holder in Exxon-Mobil or the like. If you are thinking you won't notice a fuel consumption difference between that gas hog & a Cummins 4BT, you are in for a real shock & awe surprise, it doesn't matter how few miles you plan to drive it per year. Good luck.

Oh, I'm sure I'll notice, but, I dont have kids, don't plan on kids; I am (relatively, assuming you dont count the truck) smart with my money, and have no credit card debt, so, I think I'll be ok with the $1600 a year difference in fuel costs:

2 days a week to work, 100 miles on the weekend gives me 140 miles a week. Thats 480 a month, thats 5760 a year. Round it off to 6K, tack on 4 to make it a nice even 10K.

Diesel runs a 20% premium over gas. Lets say it gets 21 MPG with a diesel, 10 with the gas (and from what I've read on the 4BT forums, when you run much more then a 35" tire, over 20 MPG is pretty optimistic, but, we'll say 21 to give the diesel an advantage). Lets also say that gas is $4.00 a gallon, and diesel is 4.80 (20% premium, and it's coming, only a matter of time before it's 4 bucks a gallon). Now, @ 10K a year, thats $4K for gas, or $2400 for diesel.

One could argue that I could go an extra 6500 miles on the difference, assuming I used diesel, but, I honestly dont know where I would drive the truck 17K miles a year. 10K is all I'll ever put on a year, and since I don't have the aformentioned kids or credit card debt, the extra $1600 doesnt bother me. If I cared, I'd go buy a Toyota Prius.

Once again, "to each his own". A personal opinion as to where I got the logic, I've always thought more along the lines of that $1,600 cost savings looking much better deposited in a CD or something that would be of benefit on some rainy day down the road instead of running it out the exhaust pipe.

[Josh]

I guess you must be a major stock holder in Exxon-Mobil or the like. If you are thinking you won't notice a fuel consumption difference between that gas hog & a Cummins 4BT, you are in for a real shock & awe surprise, it doesn't matter how few miles you plan to drive it per year. Good luck.

Oh, I'm sure I'll notice, but, I dont have kids, don't plan on kids; I am (relatively, assuming you dont count the truck) smart with my money, and have no credit card debt, so, I think I'll be ok with the $1600 a year difference in fuel costs:

2 days a week to work, 100 miles on the weekend gives me 140 miles a week. Thats 480 a month, thats 5760 a year. Round it off to 6K, tack on 4 to make it a nice even 10K.

Diesel runs a 20% premium over gas. Lets say it gets 21 MPG with a diesel, 10 with the gas (and from what I've read on the 4BT forums, when you run much more then a 35" tire, over 20 MPG is pretty optimistic, but, we'll say 21 to give the diesel an advantage). Lets also say that gas is $4.00 a gallon, and diesel is 4.80 (20% premium, and it's coming, only a matter of time before it's 4 bucks a gallon). Now, @ 10K a year, thats $4K for gas, or $2400 for diesel.

One could argue that I could go an extra 6500 miles on the difference, assuming I used diesel, but, I honestly dont know where I would drive the truck 17K miles a year. 10K is all I'll ever put on a year, and since I don't have the aformentioned kids or credit card debt, the extra $1600 doesnt bother me. If I cared, I'd go buy a Toyota Prius.

Once again, "to each his own". A personal opinion as to where I got the logic, I've always thought more along the lines of that $1,600 cost savings looking much better deposited in a CD or something that would be of benefit on some rainy day down the road instead of running it out the exhaust pipe.

I already put 12% of my after tax pay into retirement...

But yes, to each his own... I do like the diesel idea, I was planning on doing that originally (as it shows in my signature) but I have the potential to build the "ultimate" M, and think it will be a neat build. If all else fails, and I get sick of 10 MPG, there will always be 4BTs laying around...