Country of manufacture has zip to do with the QUALITY of what they manufacture...
We don't need a pissing contest over how much we love or hate foreign products. It's enough to say that even China produces crap occasionally. Anyone that believes China produces nothing but the best of everything should spend a day at the Buffalo tool store of their choice. Or buy some tranny gears from Taiwan and China.
Getting a part built to a federal spec or any other manufacturer police force standard is a far cry from getting parts produced to fill the after market civilian needs of an old vehicle collector group. They do not share the same level of quality control.
Sal,
I have never used a Taiwan built master cylinder and doubt that I will. You'll have to find someone that has had one in service at least 3 or 4 years to get a reliable performance report.
The reason I'm asking is I have a set of there wheel cylinders on my truck. And now have 2 of them leaking. I installed them last year. But bought them almost 3 1/2 years ago, So I cant bring them back. The truck has not been driven yet except for moving around the back yard. And was wondering if anyone else has had any problems with them? I lost all faith in them and I'm going to replace them all.
Addressing the original question here (how good should the brakes be), I've realized that many of the members of this forum are young enough that the only vehicles they've ever driven prior to owning an M37 were equipped with automatic transmissions, power steering, and power brakes. That said, if you are one of these fine folks, no matter how good your brakes are or how well they're adjusted, they will NEVER be as efficient as power disc brakes. You must plan ahead...do not exceed the speed limit (as if that were even possible), begin slowing down way before you think you'll need to stop, and apply the brakes sooner than you're used to. Do not tailgate! Leave yourself plenty of room to stop if the guy in front of you slams on his brakes all of a sudden or runs into something in front of him. You really have to watch the road a lot farther ahead of you than most drivers do these days. My wife probably only watches about 50 yards ahead of her and tailgates like crazy. I hate riding with her! I, on the other hand, watch the road as much as a mile ahead of me and am always prepared to respond to some idiot maneuver by another vehicle. I've never been "surprised" yet, but my wife has totalled one car and one pickup truck when caught unawares. She wasn't the cause of either accident, but could probably have avoided both had she been paying more attention to what was going on around her.
What I'm saying here is simple. Defensive driving is a must!
Yes Lifer I agree with you fully about defensive driving..But it would be nice to KNOW you have Good quality Brake system components on your truck, not just think there good...That's why I'm asking around..
Lifer wrote:Addressing the original question here (how good should the brakes be), I've realized that many of the members of this forum are young enough that the only vehicles they've ever driven prior to owning an M37 were equipped with automatic transmissions, power steering, and power brakes. That said, if you are one of these fine folks, no matter how good your brakes are or how well they're adjusted, they will NEVER be as efficient as power disc brakes. You must plan ahead...do not exceed the speed limit (as if that were even possible), begin slowing down way before you think you'll need to stop, and apply the brakes sooner than you're used to. Do not tailgate! Leave yourself plenty of room to stop if the guy in front of you slams on his brakes all of a sudden or runs into something in front of him. You really have to watch the road a lot farther ahead of you than most drivers do these days. My wife probably only watches about 50 yards ahead of her and tailgates like crazy. I hate riding with her! I, on the other hand, watch the road as much as a mile ahead of me and am always prepared to respond to some idiot maneuver by another vehicle. I've never been "surprised" yet, but my wife has totalled one car and one pickup truck when caught unawares. She wasn't the cause of either accident, but could probably have avoided both had she been paying more attention to what was going on around her.
What I'm saying here is simple. Defensive driving is a must!
50 yards? I wish I could get my wife to look past the end of the hood.
JGPierce wrote:The MVM article about the dual MC upgrade was by Michael Sullivan in the April 2006 issue.
A Bendix #1584 dual MC from a 1980 Chevy C30 one-ton truck was used. This is the same as NAPA #39017 or CarQuest #20-1584.
Put putty on the frame to mark the locations of the brake lines.
Are people still using this model of a dual MC? Any issues?
HTH.
John
I still have this setup. I love it. Now mind you, I went from all stock "worn to the rivets & leaking cylinder" braking to 2 chamber M/C, proportioning valve & 4 wheel disk brakes. Replaced every line, too. Come to think of it, the pedal is the only stock part. My truck stops very quickly, either empty or under full load. Minimal maintenance - just the usual care & feeding of this kind of setup. The 2 chambers just gives me the piece of mind that if I blow out a line somewhere, that I still have 1/2 my braking system left.
You can trust your mother, but you can't trust your ground.
Got a couple of extra minutes here at lunch break, I'll say this.
Regular brake fluid (DOT3) draws moisture, thus if the vehicle is left sit over extended periods, you may as well expect issues, and it won't matter whether the M/C or W/C are golden or whatever. This is not a problem in a vehicle that is driven regularly or even a moderate amount.
Fact: Anyone who installs new system components and then lets the truck sit for a year, premium quality components or not, you need not ever expect sweet success. Now I fully expect 10 replies from folks who built their's 25 years ago and have had 0 issues, you are special indeed. Dreamers are born every day they say.
I got NOS ones on the truck. They have been sitting for years and they are working fine!!!! If a few people are offshore picky like me. I have a few wheel cylinders that I have cleaned up and rebuilt that were rusty from sitting that I would consider selling. I have others that have been honed out and are still within dodge tolorances.
That being said, I got MANY that eventually one day I will have sleved or go with a oversized piston.
Green Mountain Military Vehicle Club Army Transportation Association Vietnam
Sal wrote:Charles. What would you recommend when restoring a truck ?
We never use rebuilt brake parts, they simply will not hold up like new. Honed cylinders are generally no good unless sleeved with brass or stainless. I don't like doing work over again, that's out of pocket expense any way you look at it. When it comes to rebuilding/restoring trucks and equipment, I've got lots of experience, personally, I wouldn't give any more than scrap price for all the rebuilt components you could haul in here, rebuilt brake components just do not make the cut. When it comes to brakes, I'm a realist and not a dreamer. My customers bring their trucks here to get leaks and drips stopped, we can't stop them using rebuilt parts.
What I meant Charles was for you to explain your statement you made about having a truck sit for a year and not expect leaks. What do you recommend someone do ?
Regular brake fluid (DOT3) draws moisture, thus if the vehicle is left sit over extended periods, you may as well expect issues, and it won't matter whether the M/C or W/C are golden or whatever. This is not a problem in a vehicle that is driven regularly or even a moderate amount.
Fact: Anyone who installs new system components and then lets the truck sit for a year, premium quality components or not, you need not ever expect sweet success. Now I fully expect 10 replies from folks who built their's 25 years ago and have had 0 issues, you are special indeed. Dreamers are born every day they say.Charles Talbert http://www.mseriesrebuild.com
Sal, it just isn't a good idea to install a new brake system if the truck is going to sit and not be used. If doing a restoration, it should be one of the last things you do shortly before the truck will be up and running. It is the nature of brake system components to deteriorate if not in use. A truck can sit around for a long time with no visible leaks and you're thinking I've already built the system and all is fine. When you put it into operation, in no time the system is bleeding to death. Fluid is inside brake drums soaking the new lining, wheel cylinders and M/C have internal leaks that you will never see, etc. It really matters not whether you installed the cheapest or the best, ask yourself this question; "does best really exist anymore?" If to you the best is NOS that has sit on the shelf for years, the answer is NO. The deterioration rate will be about the same in a system that sits idle. On the other hand, you can install new components on your truck that is driven frequently and likely have no issues for a long time. It's been several years also since we built the system on our M37 shop runner truck, but it is driven frequently. You see, driven FREQUENTLY is the key.
Like I said before, you can be realistic or a dreamer. Honesty here, NOS parts are probably the worst choice out there in brake system components, because they are years old, the rubber internals have long since started to deteriorate right in the box. It's like NOS oil seals, a total waste. One can say it ain't so, but it won't change reality, father time is working every minute. My suggestion, don't waste your cash on NOS junk, it dosen't matter whose name is in the casting, US made stuff ages just like all the rest and the result will be the same.
If you can get a bargain on NOS Wagner wheel or master cylinders buy them. The new rubber parts are cheap. The steel and cast iron isn't deteriorating on the shelf. The rubber parts are.
Are all offshore parts junk? Of course not but their track record for inexpensive aftermarket automotive replacement parts is not very good. People who profit from sales of off shore stuff will obviously support it's quality. It's your truck and your money and your choice. You are the only party subject to any loss from using them. The vendors just keep the hook in the water. I prefer to watch how the other guy makes out on using offshore parts before I spend my money. For example several years ago in the jeep world the T90 tranny and D18 transfer case offshore gears and shafts showed up on the market and were really cheap. Within 2 years we found out why. Surface hardening was inadequate (incorrect depth).
The Dot 3 & 4 old wives tales about moisture issues are just that. Dot 3 & 4 do not suck in moisture from outside the system. Any vented system irregardless of make and model and fluid type which is vented to the atmosphere will eventually become contaminated with moisture. Dot 3 & 4 absorb moisture (the moisture molecules cling to the Dot 3 & 4 molecules). This keeps the moisture in suspension within the brake fluid helping to prevent it from corroding metal components. As the moisture content of the fluid maxes out, it's ability to do its job is reduced. That is why we have the 2 year flush and fill requirement. It is the guy who ignores this 2 year flush that cries loudest when after 6 or 7 years he has corroded parts.
Those folks who support the Dot 5 silicon fluids claim that the silicon will not absorb the moisture. Well they are correct! Therefore the moisture must go someplace else and that place is the lowest points in the system and then the rust starts there. So the only way to get rid of this moisture is to flush the system every 2 years.
Bottom line is you are the only guy who can cover your 6. Shop carefully and wisely.
thanks wes.............you are correct in what I did with some NOS wheel cylinders that I got. Guess charles missed that part. All they had was surface rust so they could not sell them. I rebuilt them with new seals and put a fresh hone in the bore. The manual clearly gives a tolorance on what you can take them out to. I have done this to a few and have sold a couple to some people I know and have had no complaints. Ones that I have that are out of limits or close, I have saved to possibly have sleved. Sorry but after dealing with some New star wheel cylinders on my M151 that did not fit right or have the right bleeder fitting that worked on the jeep........sorry I will not cheap out on brakes that way. I am a aircraft mechanic and a owner of a tailwheel airplane and brakes are important. I would rather rebuild a correct set then have some offshore junk try to stop me. This worries me now more than ever as I also have 5 ton MV's and one day the good stuff will be gone for them too.
Like charles mentioned before.............dont let them sit.
Green Mountain Military Vehicle Club Army Transportation Association Vietnam
Listen guys, I ain't stupid, I'm well aware that if the NOS casting is good and the internals are replaced with new (not NOS) components, that should be an ok part. I think both of you fully understand what I was saying, it meant if a person is pulling NOS components from the box and installing them thinking they have good stuff cause it's NOS, well they are likely to reap more trouble sooner than later. That was my point.
Now CUZ let me explain this to you once more. We are not a parts vendor, we are a truck rerbuilder/restorer. We stock frequently used parts so we have them on hand for our projects. Most of what we have are product lines we have used for years, it has proven out to be good stuff or we wouldn't use it. We turn out some of the highest quality workmanship money can buy on these types of projects. Substandard parts of any kind do not work for us, neither will I sell them to you. Anything I mention having for sale here is either take off parts of which we have accumulated a surplus stock, or the new stuff we have on the shelf for our own use. Most stuff we are able to purchase at a better price than if we just bought 1 or 2 items and I have offered the savings to folks here on the forum. Now CUZ if this doesn't work for you, GUESS WHAT; you don't have to buy it. How many times have you been here and seen what is on the shelf? Truth, you have never been here, you don't have a clue what is here, yet you continue to wag your tongue about us in your vague indirect way. I've already said I can deal with it, so no biggy there, but this forum sure would be a more pleasant place to be if you would simply state your opinion either pro or con and just leave it at that, especially since most of the time you really don''t have a clue anyway concerning some areas you wander into. Don't get me wrong, you offer very valid input on many subjects, that isn't the kind of stuff I'm speaking of. You know what i'm talking about, I think this is enough said and I'm done with it.
Home 
I installed them last year. But bought them almost 3 1/2 years ago, So I cant bring them back. The truck has not been driven yet except for moving around the back yard. And was wondering if anyone else has had any problems with them? I lost all faith in them and I'm going to replace them all. 
