Failed Fuel Filter Causes Failed Fuel Pump.

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NAM VET
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Failed Fuel Filter Causes Failed Fuel Pump.

Post by NAM VET »

in the old days, when an engine didn't t run, the first thing to do was to determine if it is fuel or electrical. Now days, in modern cars, it is always "electrical." When the problem is intermittent, it is a lot more complex to sort out. Several months ago, my truck would hesitate then buck and stumble, and die. Often after a short period of rest, it would start and run fine for a few minutes, then it would occur again. When I would check my fuel pressure gage on my pressure regulator, running a Facet fuel pump, it would read 3.5 psi.

I assumed it was a failing coil. So, put in a new DeBella coil, but in doing so I accidentally shorted my Pertronix, and so had to replace that too. But the problem persisted. So eventually pulled my military Distributor out about 6 times, checking this and that, and found it was a 15 min project to pull it out after removing the cover, turning to TDC, for the re-install. I have a bullet nose stud on the block so reinstalling it was a simple matter of dropping it in, and then running a nut on the stud. Bought an assortment of screwdrivers to make quick work of the cap screws.

But still no Joy, and then when running a test out in the country, on the road by the flat bed driver' house, it stalled again, and when I coasted into his yard, found indeed I had no fuel pressure with my separate fuel pump switch nor with cranking the motor. So I decided to pull the in tank fuel filer, and found it was just a rubber hose with a tiny lawn mower filter stuck on the end, such that it was pushed way up on the hose, leaving perhaps a quarter inch of fine filter for fuel pick up! So sourced a new in-tank SS screen and new cover plate/pick-up/gasket from John B, and worried about how to get the old screws out and then the old gasket off without sparking a fire. I had a gas fire in my TR8 about 40 years ago, nearly died.

Soaked the damaged plate screws in Kroil several days, then crossed my fingers and with the correct Phillps, they came out ok, and the gasket was also easy to remove with plastic scraper. Installed the new filter, and with continued stumbling decided that running my Facet dry had over heated the pump, such that it would run a few minutes, then die without the cooling effect of fuel. When I would start my engine it had fuel, but within a mile or so, it would die.

But I had my truck four times on his flatbed, paid for several weeks parking at his place, then because we were selling and moving about a hundred miles to Columbia, SC, I just did not have time to deal with a questionable drive. So had him flat bed it to my son's place, where I finally had time today to install a new 24V Facet. Started it and idled and revved fine, let it idle for a half hour, pressure 3+ psi and consistent, so I am pretty sure all this is resolved and I can drive the 5 miles over to our new home soon.

All told, with the complexity of our selling and moving, and my new friend the flat bed driver, two Pertronics, two Facets, the total cost of this adventure is about $2000. All because of a two dollar fuel filter the former owner installed, causing then a failed fuel pump.

Here, the troublesome filter and hose. Sadly, now I need to see my truck as we have to place to park it at our new home. hal

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T. Highway
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Re: Failed Fuel Filter Causes Failed Fuel Pump.

Post by T. Highway »

Wow Hal,

I'm glad to hear that you figured out what it was and have the truck back up and running. It never surprises me any more to find things like this, the previous owner most likely thought it was a great idea to fix it like that.

Hope that you haven't had too much damage from IAN blowing across the state of SC.

Regards,
Bert
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Re: Failed Fuel Filter Causes Failed Fuel Pump.

Post by NAM VET »

no problems for us here near Columbia. thanks for asking. My gas tank looked pretty good down inside, but a little debris apparently clogged the tiny filter. Will drive it back the five miles home tomorrow. Should be good now. hal
Cal_Gary
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Re: Failed Fuel Filter Causes Failed Fuel Pump.

Post by Cal_Gary »

Wow Hal, that's quite a difficult situation, and an expensive one!
Hope you have the gremlins solved once and for all!
Gary
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Re: Failed Fuel Filter Causes Failed Fuel Pump.

Post by vargaspj »

Great detective job!!! What a butcher job on the fuel filter from a previous owner; when you buy something I guess you never know what they may have done to it to cause you grief going forward. I have a 24 VDC Facet fuel pump in my truck on the frame rail just below and forward of the fuel tank (FACET 24-Volt OEM pn 480564E that I bought from Aircraft Spruce pn 05-01003). Just want to mention that that fuel pump has an internal replaceable filter in it also, if yours is the same fuel pump as mine. Anyway I would expect you will get great service from the correct in-tank filter you installed. Great big pat on the back for keeping with it, solving a difficult problem, and keeping the old war-horse running.
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Drove it home!!!

Post by NAM VET »

Home at last! My truck has been parked in my son's driveway about 6 miles away for almost two months. Just no time to "deal" with it. So put a new 24V Facet from Pegasus Auto Racing, I think it was $170 with tax and shipping. Yes, they do have an easily checked and cleaned 70 micron filter in the bottom of the pump. I have a metal finer filter just after the pump. I marked the failed pump as bad, but have another one I had thought was failed and removed, so will keep it as a spare.

Today, fired right up, 3.5 psi at my engine compartment pressure gage. Let it idle for about 20 minutes, while I plotted my route home. Our new home is in Lexington SC, near Columbia, and has many hilly one lane roads, with no place to pull over if I had a problem. Avoided as many of these on my plan, plus wrote down phone numbers of five local tow companies, "just in case."

Then added two gal of non-ethanol, and with a minute of prayer, pulled out and drove several laps in his neighborhood and kept raising my hood and was pleased to see a stable3 3.5 psi of fuel. Then with an anxious heart, pulled out and headed home. After so many failures, I was very attuned to any stumble or hesitation, but ran fine all the way to our new home.

It was expensive and time consuming thing, this (to use a medical term), a failed fuel pump secondary to a clogged tiny non-OEM in-tank filter.

In the past several months, I would wake up at night worried about stripped tank plate screws, or inability to safety remove the plate gasket, or backordered parts. How was I going to get my truck with a troublesome problem to our new home 100 miles away? I will sleep better now. It would have between a less stressful task if we weren't moving in all this, and if my truck wasn't "down" 20 miles out in the country at the home of Mike (the flat bed driver). At least I learned how to replace a Pertronix and pull and replace a distributor in about 15 minutes.

But now the sad task of listing it for sale. Hal
Cal_Gary
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Re: Failed Fuel Filter Causes Failed Fuel Pump.

Post by Cal_Gary »

We all know the "what if" feeling of being stranded on the side of the road. Your level of planning beforehand usually minimizes such angst. I know when I got mine on the road after 10 years it took several trips working out the gremlins. Now as I knock on wood I have a reliable truck that I am confident won't leave me dead-lined road-side, but I still carry tools and my phone "just in case."

So sorry to hear you may be selling your rig, Hal. Please stick with us either way, as your knowledge and expertise is always welcome here!
Thanks,
Gary
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Facet/Filter/shut-off

Post by NAM VET »

Many years ago, I narrowly escaped being burned to death under my Triumph TR8 from a gas line fire, which burned out my garage and my TR 8. So I have a real fear of gas fires, and also because of my brother in law's severe burns causing him to spend nearly year in a burn unit from a gas tank explosion. So anytime I prep to deal with an auto's fuel, I carefully plan how I can reduce my risks.

My truck has had three different fuel pump systems, all 24V. The one Charles T and I finally settled on is a low pressure cylindrical marine grade 24V pump, which has a 70 micron screen on the bottom, very easy to unscrew for inspection and cleaning or replacing.

In past I have put a clamp on the short rubber line from my newly installed hard line from the tank down alongside the fuel rail, but worried about dislodging it and being drenched in gas. Plus, I use fuel injection grade rubber gas lines and don't like the way clamping it leaves it partially compressed.

So, months ago, when I put on replacement Facet, mistakenly thinking a failed pump was causing my drivability problem, when it was actually an incorrect carb float/needle problem, I put in a valve, so when I want to inspect my Facet filter or like a few days ago, replace my burned out Facet I can more safely turn off my tank line, and work without worry about dislodging a clamp.

Plus, when Charles T extensively repaired and modified my truck, he installed an electrical shut off if my oil pressure drops in case of an accident. So there is power to my pump only when the engine is cranking or running. But I later installed another switched line to the pump, so I can prime my lines and carb and filter before cranking. I put in an Aircraft "hold-on" switch with a flip cover. But I couldn't figure out how to not have the pressure switch on and my prime line on without blowing the former's fuse. So I also have a dash toggle to turn on or off my pressure sending switch, turning it off to prime, then releasing the prime, then turning there pressure on.

By the way, the only way I was able to find my recent failed Facet was the problem, was to check my pressure with the engine off with my prime switch and fuel pressure gage, Mike telling me I had no pressure. Diagnostic.

So here is pic of my present gas line valve, the pump, and then my fuel filter. Handy mounted to a bracket someone welded to the frame. I rubber mounted my pump, so ran a secure ground from the pump to the frame. Besides, if I reach under and turn off the valve, it makes my truck less susceptible to being stolen.

I carry extra gas hose, because when it is necessary to pull it off the pump or valve or filter, it just won't come off, so I cut it and replace the hose when that is necessary.

I just want it back to running reliably now. Here a few pics.... Hal
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NAM VET
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Re: Failed Fuel Filter Causes Failed Fuel Pump.

Post by NAM VET »

my dash fuel pump switches. hal
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Cal_Gary
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Re: Failed Fuel Filter Causes Failed Fuel Pump.

Post by Cal_Gary »

Good golly Hal-glad you got through that ok!
Thanks for the additional pix too!
Gary
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