g741.org

Hey guys!
Does anybody on this site have any experiance with military land rovers? Was wondering how they compare to our M37s?

Regards,
Matt

MThrax crossed over to the "Dark Side" once.
Most of the problems were Lucas Electrics.

m-37Bruce wrote:MThrax crossed over to the "Dark Side" once.
Most of the problems were Lucas Electrics.

Ah yes, Lucas Electric- Prince of Darkness.

Matt

MikeOneSix wrote:Hey guys!
Does anybody on this site have any experiance with military land rovers? Was wondering how they compare to our M37s?

Regards,
Matt

I dont think you can really compare a Landy to the Dodge M37. They really are two completely different beasts. The Land Rover is more comparable to a Jeep, both in size and weight. They are extremely capable off road machines however but would struggle to carry a ton in the back while towing a 2 ton trailer !!


The fact that they are still bought by civilians and the military testify to their design.

Stu

Stu
Thanks for your reply. I posted this same question over on g503.com a couple of days ago and haven't recieved a single reply. I understand that the Dodge and the Landie are two different trucks. I have no experience with LRs and know no one who owns one so I thought that maybe a comparison to something that I do own/have experience with would help me.

The Land Rover light weight (88") seems to be very "jeep" like in it's size and capacities but I thought the larger 109/110 size trucks might be a little more "truck like."

Matt

The 109/110 designation is merely a reference to the wheelbase. Most typical land rovers share the same body dimensions, whether short like the 88's or longer like the 110.

There is an old saying in Australia - If you want to go to the out back take either a Landrover or a LandCruiser. If you want to come back - take the Landcruiser...

Rovers used axles from Salisbury, and while not weak, they aren't as strong as a Dana 44 (for example). The Gear boxes seem stout enough, but the engines are nothing to write home about - either the 4cyl gas or the diesel. The newer Rover V8s are a buick design that they aquired in the 60's... Rover has just refined it over the last 40 years or so...

Master Yota

Thanks for the insite. I was aware that the designations of "88", "109" &"110" had to do with the truck's wheel base and not load capabilities. I guess what has attracted me to them is like the M37, you can strip the doors and canvas off of them, fold the windshield down and take it for a slow speed trail ride. They are a little larger than a jeep (109 & 110 are) but not as cumbersome as say an M35 or 5 ton.

I do a lot of trail riding locally and although a lot of the trails I go on would probably fit an M35, I prefer something in the M37/M715 size range. HMMWVs are too wide and way out of my price range. When you think about it in the MV world, there isn't a whole lot out there that is being surplused out. CUCVs and big stuff that's it.


Surprising that no one has mentioned either the Unimog or Pinzgauer as an alternative to the Land Rover. Have looked at & driven both trucks found both to be not bad at all I'm just curious about the LRs that's all.
Matt

I guess the main problem with Unimog or Pinzgauer is the cost of the vehicle and spares. I believe the Pinz is extremely good off road and up steep gradients. They use some special type of suspension/drive system.

Stu

M37UK wrote:I guess the main problem with Unimog or Pinzgauer is the cost of the vehicle and spares. I believe the Pinz is extremely good off road and up steep gradients. They use some special type of suspension/drive system.

Stu

Stu
What I discovered was that spares for the above vehicles were either non exsistant or very expensive. A set of disc brake calipers for a diesel 'mog(416) was something like 5k . On the flip side, belts,hoses & filters were readily available through normal chanels and there were (some) deals to be had on gassser (404) 'mog parts. Another down side of the 'mog is that they were kind of a PIA to get into/out of.

Back to Rovers; Had someone tell me that "a LR is a completely different kind of beast and to be prepared" Not too sure what they ment by that. Then again, not too sure why the 'rover has the rep it has afterall, it's just a solid axle leaf sprug truck with a conventional ladder type frame? My apologies if I offend anyone's national pride here, remember I kind of like them .

Matt

The rover has its reputation simply because it truly is an oddity... As it came about just after ww2 the brits wanted a military vehicle with the same attributes as the jeep, but on a broader, more adaptable scale. In my opinion, they didn't really acheive either. The jeep was by far more capable and had better drivetrain, and the jeep was upgraded as time went by. The Series 1,2,3 Landy's however remained very much as they were until the Range Rover came out in the late 70's.

The engineers that designed the rover appeared to have a pile of spare parts from the worst company's and decided to try and build a rig with them. The Salisbury axles are rather weak, and the lucas electronics are a joke at the best of times. The suspension is low slung, and dosen't articulate well, and it rides like a buck board. If you're any taller than 5'8", enjoy pounding your knees in to the dash too. While the aluminum body is a great thing, the fasteners that hold it to the steel frame are steel too. After 40 years of two disimilar metals coroding on each other, its not uncommon to find the body mounts have disolved away.

Newer Diesel Rovers can be imported from the Uk in milspec form, and its cheaper than you might think. A friend of mine did so about a 4 years ago, and brought over 2 109's. He loves it, but parts are expensive, and take time to bring in. If your plan is to use (abuse?) it, then it would be better to repower it with something else. Another friend just finished putting a buick 3.8 in a series 2 88 incher and Land Cruiser diffs underneath. After a rewire, its now a fairly bulletproof buggy capable of keeping up with just about anyone on the trail...

Master Yota wrote:The rover has its reputation simply because it truly is an oddity... As it came about just after ww2 the brits wanted a military vehicle with the same attributes as the jeep, but on a broader, more adaptable scale. In my opinion, they didn't really acheive either. The jeep was by far more capable and had better drivetrain, and the jeep was upgraded as time went by. The Series 1,2,3 Landy's however remained very much as they were until the Range Rover came out in the late 70's.

The engineers that designed the rover appeared to have a pile of spare parts from the worst company's and decided to try and build a rig with them. The Salisbury axles are rather weak, and the lucas electronics are a joke at the best of times. The suspension is low slung, and dosen't articulate well, and it rides like a buck board. If you're any taller than 5'8", enjoy pounding your knees in to the dash too. While the aluminum body is a great thing, the fasteners that hold it to the steel frame are steel too. After 40 years of two disimilar metals coroding on each other, its not uncommon to find the body mounts have disolved away.
LRs were famous for their corrosion issues. Didn't know about hight issues but then again, I'm under 6 foot tall.
Newer Diesel Rovers can be imported from the Uk in milspec form, and its cheaper than you might think. A friend of mine did so about a 4 years ago, and brought over 2 109's. He loves it, but parts are expensive, and take time to bring in.

That's good to know although, I wonder if he brought in those 109s because of potential issues with DMV allowing vehicles to be titled and registered for on road use that don't meet current DMV safety regs. Could a couple of defender 90s be imported?
If your plan is to use (abuse?) it, then it would be better to repower it with something else. Agreed. Although IMHO, it would be foolish to import something from as far away as the UK (or any other Country) only to abuse the sh*t out of it causing finacial as well as physical grief. My interest would be in trail riding not brush busting or extreme off roading. Save that stuff for the guys with the custom rigs. Another friend just finished putting a buick 3.8 in a series 2 88 incher and Land Cruiser diffs underneath. After a rewire, its now a fairly bulletproof buggy capable of keeping up with just about anyone on the trail...

I guess my interest in a LR stems from a desire to have something a little different then the standard CUCV, WC, M715 or M37 (at times ). I like the size of the 3/4 ton trucks for the simple reasons that they are much smaller than the next widely available MV, the M35 but still have more room and carrying capacity than the 1/4 ton jeep(s) out there.
In the end, If I had the money on hand to go out and buy/import a Landie, I'd rather dump that dough into either my M37 or ferret.
Matt

I agree with all your points Matt. The desire to drive something diffrent is a powerful one, and every built up Landie I've ever seen has become an object of lust in my imagination (at least for a while - until I consider the amount of money and hours that went into it to make it that way).

As for imports meeting DMV requirements, it wasn't to hectic (up here in Canada anyway). California or someother strict state might be a different story.

Its also a known fact that driving a capable vehicle on the trail leads challengine more difficult trails. The aftermarket tapped into this type of thinking long ago, and now we are all hooked...

MikeOneSix wrote: I guess my interest in a LR stems from a desire to have something a little different then the standard CUCV, WC, M715 or M37 (at times ).

If you want something really different, there's the Citroen Mehari.

It's more in the Jeep category, size-wise, though.

Lifer wrote:

MikeOneSix wrote: I guess my interest in a LR stems from a desire to have something a little different then the standard CUCV, WC, M715 or M37 (at times ).

If you want something really different, there's the Citroen Mehari.

It's more in the Jeep category, size-wise, though.

Or an Austin Gypsy...


The only real drawback to using a totaly unique vehicle as a trail rig, is that should a breakdown ever occur, the likely hood of "borrowing" a spare part from a traveling companion is pretty remote. That means that you need the space to plan for and carry any vehicle specific tools and parts that may be needed to get you home.

I suppose there is some level of safety in conforming with the masses...

Lifer
There's also the GAZ69...Now that's a cool vehicle as well . I was able to swat the Austin Gyspy bug before it could get me and a larger insect ate the Citroen Mehari bug before it could get within range .

Master Yota
As for depending on someone else for parts and support on the trail, It's been my (sad) experience that if I don't depend on the kindness of strangers, I'm often not let down. At least around here anyways. I do travel with friends but we (all) own different rigs jeeps, Dodges, Fords so there's no parts interchangability but at least there's help with recovery or a ride out of the bush.

I made the follwoing coment on a similar thread I posted over on g503.com that maybe I should just remove the top, windshield and doors from my M37 and carry the spare up on the hood and then I can pretend it's a Landie.....Hmm time to break out the sketch book.....
Matt