Big Three

[greencom]

Do any of you feel as worried as I am about the U.S. auto makers about to go under? I'm seeing a huge chunk of America about to die. There are millions of jobs directly and indirectly affected. I've bought American cars for the last forty years and it's hard to imagine them no longer around. I don't see how we can avoid a giant economic depression with all those jobs lost. It's almost like losing a hunk of family.

Greencom

[MSeriesRebuild]

What I don't understand is this, why don't they simply move these plants to southern states & tell the unions what to do with their demands? If what I'm hearing (have not verified) about auto makers that are located in the south is valid, they are doing very well, even now. I'm sure there is a lot about both situations that I don't know, but 1 thing I do know is that labor unions will bankrupt them if they don't get into a position where they can't have control. I could see a lot of Americans proud to train for auto workers jobs that would be really happy to work for a decent wage & benefit package without union demands. It's called survival, get away from the issues that are killing you or you won't likely make it. The age old line is good once again, "when does common sense kick in?" Another common sense issue, I expect it would help if they stopped filling up the new car lots with so many gas guzzling SUV's. I could see other types selling much better right now. Just an opinion.

[pfrederi]

I have a 95 GMC Sonoma bought new. Also I have a 96 Honda Civic bought ne. The truck just turned 90,000 and the Honda 128,000. Both have received routine maintenance and have been garaged virtually all their lives.
The Honda was made in USA. I has had one problem a Electronic Control module failed.

The list for the truck is somewhat longer...a lot longer but highlights are:
Thowout bearing at 7000 miles
Clutch at 23,000 (Not covered by warranty...over 36 months_
Throttle position sensor
Windshield wiper control unit
Vacuum Operated Front hubs (Replaced with after market system)
Gas Tank rusted from outside as (plastic guard collected dirt)
Brake line ruptured

There has been more but you get the point.


I have had Honda's since 1981 and between the three of them a water pump and the ECM were it for unexpected repairs.

I have had Pontiacs over the years and none were overwhelming for reliability or build quality.

My point is Honda can figure out how to build a reliable car at a reasonable price in the US. GM cannot, why should I subsidize GM any longer?

If only Honda made pickup truck....

[MSeriesRebuild]

I have a 95 GMC Sonoma bought new. Also I have a 96 Honda Civic bought ne. The truck just turned 90,000 and the Honda 128,000. Both have received routine maintenance and have been garaged virtually all their lives.
The Honda was made in USA. I has had one problem a Electronic Control module failed.

The list for the truck is somewhat longer...a lot longer but highlights are:
Thowout bearing at 7000 miles
Clutch at 23,000 (Not covered by warranty...over 36 months_
Throttle position sensor
Windshield wiper control unit
Vacuum Operated Front hubs (Replaced with after market system)
Gas Tank rusted from outside as (plastic guard collected dirt)
Brake line ruptured

There has been more but you get the point.


I have had Honda's since 1981 and between the three of them a water pump and the ECM were it for unexpected repairs.

I have had Pontiacs over the years and none were overwhelming for reliability or build quality.

My point is Honda can figure out how to build a reliable car at a reasonable price in the US. GM cannot, why should I subsidize GM any longer?

If only Honda made pickup truck....

A fantastic point of view, I agree 150%.

[Lifer]

Another option would be to require American auto manufacturers to build cars that Americans will actually buy and then slap a huge import duty on all foreign cars like other countries do. (The last I knew, Japan tacked on a 150% import duty on American cars being brought into that country. If we did likewise, there would be a lot more American "big 3" cars and a lot fewer Japanese/Chinese/Korean "big 3" cars on our roads.)

When I was a kid, American cars had a choice of a V-8 (for "power") or a straight-6 (for "economy"). That was it. We didn't have (or need) all the options that are available now. Maybe we need to go back to having fewer choices.

End of rant.

[anthony manzella]

" I RESPECT ALL VIEWS " BUT have anyone of yous thought that the [3 BIG] C. E. O.s MIGHT HAVE HAD THE FOR THOUGHT TO CUT BACK ON THERE OWN DEMANDS OF FILLING UP THERE OWN DAMM POKETS !!!! DONT ALWAYS ASSUME IT'S THE UNIONS THAT HAVE PULLED EVERYTHING DOWN THIS NASTEY DIRT ROAD !!!! " JUST MY RANT " Thank all of YOU PEOPLE For My FREDOM. UNION or NOT !!!!

[Josh]

It's both their faults, the management, and the Unions. GM has pushed for years to try and rule the auto market by gobbling up other automakers and putting their designs in "the parts bin" so they can pull from the rack, minimize innovation, and maximize profit. The unions have some jobs in GM that make $75 an hour. thats rediculous.

I say let them burn. Let them fall, a capital investment firm will swoop in, sweep up the mess for pennies on the dollar, move the assembly plants to southern, non union states (like Hyundai did with their plant in Alabama, or BMW and Mercedes in South Carolina) and it will hurt short term, but the problem will fix itself. I already gave enough of my $$ to AIG.


On a side note: as lifer said, they need to build stuff we will buy. The M is the only american car I've bought. Id love to help workers here, but we jsut dont build anything I like, or desire.

There is a HUGE market for an AWD, turbo sports coupe. Japan has built dozens of them, and continues to, but the big 3 have yet to build one. Id love to have a turbo, AWD ford Escort built here, but, ford wont build one, so, I went and bought a MazdaSpeed6 2 months ago...

[Lifer]

The American automakers just don't care about their customers. When I got assigned to a base in England, back in 1983, I was authorized to ship a car overseas with me. I liked the Ford Bronco II and tried to order one with right-hand drive. The dealer said "they don't make one like that," so I contacted Ford's customer service folks at corporate HQ and explained why I wanted a right-hand-drive model. Again, I was told that "we don't make one like that." Upon leaving the terminal at Heathrow International Airport in London in my rental car, I passed a Ford dealership less than a mile from the airport. Out of curiosity, I stopped to have a look and...you guessed it! They had 3 brand new right-hand-drive Bronco IIs on the showroom floor! They came that way from the factory (in the US), too. Ford just didn't want to sell me one. They're missing a bet in the domestic market with that attitude, too! Think how many rural mail carriers we have in this country. Any American auto manufacturer who was willing to make a right-hand-drive model could make a mint off these guys and gals! International used to have a RHD model of the Scout, which our mail carriers gobbled up, but they went out of the small truck business when they merged with Case. JI'm not sure if Jeep still makes some, but they were on a contract with the USPS and they wouldn't sell 'em to the general public. Same goes for AM General's boxy little postal vans. Guvmint contract only! Too bad for them.

[djester]

There was an article in the paper this morning that points out that thirty years ago there were five auto makers in the US: Ford, Chrysler, GM, American Motors and a small VW plant. Today there are twenty auto manufacturers selling cars in the US, seventeen of which build here, with 326 different models.

And we welcomed all these foreign companies into the US and gave them tax incentives to come here. Few industrial nations have ever let foreign rivals flood a core industry as we have. Obviously, they all wanted to come here because we have the most elaborate transportation system and the largest demand for auto in the world, and we gave the industry to them.

How can we be that stupid?!

[amanco]

GM has more than one million retirees and dependents to provide for. Their union retiree payroll far exceeds their productive payroll. I say let them burn also. You can only chew on the hand that feeds you for so long. It is the only way they will learn.

[MSeriesRebuild]

$$$ hungry CEO's, union workers & others are playing a huge part in what we see. Until the government handouts are put on hold, it won't change. These suckers will have to be shown that their wants will no longer be tolerated. They can go home & sull over the party being over while their replacements jump on the band wagon with new jobs. People that will be proud to work for a good wage to create a good quality product that can be sold at a reasonable price. Not grossly over priced poor quality vehicles they are turning out now. Curiousity makes me wonder just how much of the purchase price of a new vehicle has to have tacked onto it just because of greedy folks in control.

[MSeriesRebuild]

There was an article in the paper this morning that points out that thirty years ago there were five auto makers in the US: Ford, Chrysler, GM, American Motors and a small VW plant. Today there are twenty auto manufacturers selling cars in the US, seventeen of which build here, with 326 different models.

And we welcomed all these foreign companies into the US and gave them tax incentives to come here. Few industrial nations have ever let foreign rivals flood a core industry as we have. Obviously, they all wanted to come here because we have the most elaborate transportation system and the largest demand for auto in the world, and we gave the industry to them.

How can we be that stupid?!

How can we be that stupid? I wonder just who it is that is stupid in all this. The foreign Co's have come in & built great quality vehicles while the US industry has sit back & watched them take over a huge portion of the market; true. Who is it that still refuses to build vehicles which the majority of Americans have come to love? We didn't give the industry to them. The industry itself gave the industry to them in my eyes. Just who is it that's stupid here? Hmmm; could it be the industry that's been stupid?

[nivek]

2500 to 4200usd/unit additional cost to US automaker for pension-retirement liabilities.

I don't have an answer for this mess...

kL

[Lifer]

Maybe Obama does????

[Josh]

The American automakers just don't care about their customers. When I got assigned to a base in England, back in 1983, I was authorized to ship a car overseas with me. I liked the Ford Bronco II and tried to order one with right-hand drive. The dealer said "they don't make one like that," so I contacted Ford's customer service folks at corporate HQ and explained why I wanted a right-hand-drive model. Again, I was told that "we don't make one like that." Upon leaving the terminal at Heathrow International Airport in London in my rental car, I passed a Ford dealership less than a mile from the airport. Out of curiosity, I stopped to have a look and...you guessed it! They had 3 brand new right-hand-drive Bronco IIs on the showroom floor! They came that way from the factory (in the US), too. Ford just didn't want to sell me one. They're missing a bet in the domestic market with that attitude, too! Think how many rural mail carriers we have in this country. Any American auto manufacturer who was willing to make a right-hand-drive model could make a mint off these guys and gals! International used to have a RHD model of the Scout, which our mail carriers gobbled up, but they went out of the small truck business when they merged with Case. JI'm not sure if Jeep still makes some, but they were on a contract with the USPS and they wouldn't sell 'em to the general public. Same goes for AM General's boxy little postal vans. Guvmint contract only! Too bad for them.

A friend of mine works for a subcontractor of Chrysler and he is designing a diesel powered Jeep Cherokee and Wrangler... Wrangler gets 30 MPG but, you guessed it, Chrysler says there is no demand for it here, and won't release it in the US.

I went to the Milwaukee Auto show a year ago, and they were releasing the new Challenger, and I asked the guy up on the spinning podium if i thad a 6 speed. He said in a bit of a snotty tone: "Currently, they are all automatics, but we are evaluating if it would be feasable to put a manual transmission option out there based on market research." My response was this "You'd have to be pretty stupid to release a car like without a 6 speed option. There's your market feedback." I think I pissed him off a bit...