Wisconsin won't register my truck!!!

[Josh]

Sent in my 262 bucks for hobbyist plate, as well as 75 for the title, mailing fees, etc. almost $400 later, they wont register it.

Doesn't qualify for a Hobbyist plate because its an MV, and it doesnt qualift for an MV plate because I modified it.

Mitchell, the fine upstanding person in Madison at the DMV is going to brand my title as unregisterable in Wisconsin, so I made a beeline to the DMV and got a duplicate clean copy before he could.

Going to co-register it with my dad in Michigan and put a Michigan plate on it. F%$! you Wisconsin.

Let this be a warning to anyone in WI with a modified MV.

[skinnedknuckles]

Josh ,
I'm not familiar with all of the different XM variations of the m37, but were there any that had anything like a 4 cylinder diesel in them? If there were then you could possibly register your truck as a XM____ you would have to find a data plate for it that would describe it as a XM____ . Just a thought.

[Josh]

Good thought, but, once he brands the title, it wont be usable in Wisconsin any longer.

[rixm37]

Wisconsin is full of BS for MVs. wow what's wrong with the DMV there ? So much for their great new MV law .....Glad I live elsewhere.

[MikeOneSix]

Wisconsin is full of BS for MVs. wow what's wrong with the DMV there ? So much for their great new MV law .....Glad I live elsewhere.

+ 1 for that. However, all MVers should take note that what WisDot is doing is being observed by 49 other DMVs. Wouldn't be surprised to find similar BS popping up in other states with regard to registering MVs for road use.
Matt

[Josh]

Given the wording of the law, I actually anticipated this would happen. Carl thought I was being paranoid... Not so paranoid anymore am I carl?

Mitchell down in Madison is the only one that processes these, and from the tone, wording and attitude of his voice on the phone, it is clear that he enjoys denying these registrations. I asked him for suggestions onw hat to do at this point and his response was "I will be branding the title unregisterable in wisconsin, so, that's your problem to figure out."

I plan on getting SEMA involved in this eventually. We have to put a stop to this. He hid behind the veil of safety, just like the government normally does when they are trying to pass unpopular legislation with a secret agenda. He was quick to point out these vehicles did not meet the federal crash standards of 1964. I reminded him it was built in 1954, ten years before and by that fact alone it couldnt. Thats the equivalent of holding cars built in 2002 to the latest CAFE, Tier III, and evaporative standards that are coming out in another year. I also pointed out that he registered a co-worker's 1950 Chevy pickup with a hobbyist plate, and that that truck also didn't meet the 1964 regulations, and his standard automated response was "Military vehicles were not intended to be operated on the street, they do not meet the crash standards of 1964". I wanted to ask him where he got his data from confirming that they did not meet the standards, and that they were not engineered to operate on road, and who the certified Professional engineer was that confirmed the data, but, I thought that might be pushing my luck...

I have thought of two ways around this, one of them definitely illegal, and the other very, very grey. I am taking plays from teh government playbook. If they can lie, cheat, steal, and manipulate facts to deny my registration, I can do the same to get one.

The first would be to deny it is a military truck and put a regular truck plate on it. For no one with the ability to do option B, I would think this is your only option, but, you're rolling the dice doing so. It only takes one smart cop to ruin your day, and, per Mr. Mitchell, any modifications to the truck make it illegal. So, if you upgrade to disc brakes, higher gearing, modern tires, power steering, or anything that actually DOES make the truck safer, it is now ILLEGAL!!!!

The second is to do what I am doing. co own the truck with a family member in another state, register it there under their name, and put insurance on it with both your names on it in that state. It would be no different than if you were their child or a student. I'm sure it will only be a matter of time before they close this loophole too, which is why it is now time for me to start preparing my exit strategy from Wisconsin. I told my rep when they passed the law that if it left me out in the cold I would pack up and take my 90K a year with me and I meant it.

[rickv100]

Mitchell has a supervisor and I would seek an appeal on this.

Rick

[cuz]

The MV law as written and legislated and passed in Wisconsin is the reason Josh's truck is not qualified for a MV title and plate. It is not a judgement call by any DMV official. The answer to the problem is the continuing work by the two MV groups in Wisconsin to modify the new law through the legislative process to accommodate modified MV's and permit wider road use. During the past 4 years the Wisconsin MVD laws have went from No MV's on the public highway to what we have now of stock MV's on the road for show and maintenance travel. I agree the use of explanations such as the assorted highway safety acts over the years is a lame explanation when you compare it to the other classic vehicle licensing options in Wisconsin. I do not care for the current situation but it is the current law and not any interpretation of the law that is the real issue.

[WarrenD]

At the risk of adding fuel to this inferno, I'll ask the awkward question. Are classic cars (say a Model A) allowed to be titled and registered if they have been modified? Street rods? What about a 57 Chevy with a different engine? (454 Big Block comes to mind, disc brakes, dual exhaust) I'm not seeing a difference.

[rixm37]

So do I understand that just ONE person in the whole state handles MV registrations? WOW that really loads the deck against fairness.

[Josh]

Yes, they are, Even though they were not built with the intent of meeting the 1960's federal safety requirements for obvious reasons.

To add even more fuel to the fire, you can home build vehicles here in Wisconsin out of whatefer you want, have them inspected by the state police, if they issue you a sticker, you can register and drive it... I could build a T bucket (or for that mater a replica M-37) out of 2X4's, aluminum foil and aircraft wing fabric and if it passed the minimum safety requirements of seat belts, horn, lights, protective glass and a VIN number for the major ddrivetrain components, it's legal.

Its a load of BS, which I will be walking around VIA Michigan plate and registration.

[M37UK]

I think it's incredible that some States in the "Land Of The Free" you can't even register a modified MV.
glad I dont live in those draconian states........

[cuz]

So do I understand that just ONE person in the whole state handles MV registrations? WOW that really loads the deck against fairness.

Actually one office handles MV registration and the department head answers the questions. All MV title applications must be sent in by mail with photos of the MV addressed to that department.

There's a lot of information being omitted from this discussion which is why it is heading downhill. A 55 chevy registered as a classic car get's the ole blue collector plate and has the same road use limitations as the MVs. Right now the big difference is the modification issue. You can still build a M37 look-a-like from custom parts and raw materials and title it as a home built vehicle, it just needs to have more parts provided by you then were provided by Chrysler.

Until 4 years ago we were a laid back DMV state with no loud rumblings of any kind until a Pinzgaur tried to get titled and the particular DMV agent asked what it was. This led to the DMV agent looking up the answer in the law book and lo and behold the law book has said for years that any MV designed specifically for the military and off road use cannot be licensed to operate on Wisconsin highways. The next DMV move here was to say no Pinzgauers can be licensed period. Then it moved on to all currently licensed Pinzgauers will loose their licenses. Then it snowballed to all MV's (Tactical Vehicles) designed specifically to a military contract were not and never were legally licenseable in Wisconsin.

Then finally two MV clubs in Wisconsin figured out that cussing at City Hall only makes things worse and they approached the state legislature. There they determined the best course of action was to change the law. So over the next year while the law was being changed the DMV held off on suspending prior issued licenses. Two different laws went to the floor of the legislature. One for the Pinzgauer guys and one for the rest of the MV world. We didn't get all we wanted in this first round and there will be more rounds to go. But believe it or not this is the American way. So we change the law which makes breaking the law unnecessary.

Before packing up your kit bag and heading to a new state make sure you check that states list of pending Bills on their legislative dockets.

[skinnedknuckles]

Last year I went up to Madison quite a few times to voice my opinion to the Dot. First they had a public meeting right in the Dot's building in a small conference room, we filled it to standing room only. It included collector car owners, MV owners and Dan from original Dells ducks. After that meeting the rest of the public assemblies were held at the State Capitol. The MVPA represented by Jeff Rowsam and Paul Underwood representing the Pinz's fought for us to allow usage of MV's. We have a long way to go ( the Dot won't allow any amendments to the law for 24 months from last year ) but its a start. Military vehicles were all licensed the same as collector cars so the Dot had no way of getting any statistical info on just them. Now they do. Wes , collector licensed vehicle are able to be on the road every month except January and can only carry 500 lbs of cargo. The HMV law is more like the law governing the antique plates ( to and from storage, shows, parades and "maintenance" drives ) . In the future we hope get the acceptance of a more broader vehicle range but its an uphill battle. For stock MV's to get licensed they need pictures of the front, rear, sides, engine and interior mailed up to Madison, Wis. For modified ones you should check to see if anything was an XM___ vehicle that is close to the description of the vehicle in question, because it may just be accepted that way. This subject has been pondered over alot on the other military vehicle websites.

[Josh]

Cuz, you are incorrect on several key points:

a 1955 Chevy has unlimited road use rights, except for the aformentioned winter month limitation, or as a daily driver. It can be taken out for cruise nights, car clubs, etc. A MV cannot. For maintenance and parades only.

That same 1955 Chevy can also still get a regular plain white license plate, as can any other road vehicle EXCEPT for MVs. I Cannot take a GMC CUCV or a new Canadian Army Silverado out on the road, for anything but parades and maintenance, but, a Model T is just fine... again, under the cloak of NHTSA safety rules, somehow a new Chevy truck isn't ok, but a 90 year old Model T is.

The XM arguement won't work. XM were experimental models. You think they want to stick it to you with a prduction MV, try telling them its an XM model and see what happens.


I find it interesting that Ducks and humvees are exempt from this limitation and can have collector plates. I have no doubt that money and tax dollars factored into that decision somewhere.

At the end of the day it is a double standard. Until the double standard is rectified and either bans ALL old vehicles behind the cloak of public saftey, or, gives us the same rights as any other old vehicle, I will continue with my Michgan registration.