Getting Dual wheels apart $@(!*

[creinemann]

Hi,
not an M37 question, but, thought someone could give me a tip. I am TRYING to remove my dually wheels from my 2007 Dodge 3500 to rotate them, BUT, the rear wheels are fused together so that they do not budge individually or as a whole, I have done the following with no success;

Used penetrating oil on the them and tapped with a hammer
Beat on them with a BFH
Loosened the lug nuts and drove about 7 miles on a bumpy country road
Sprayed more penetrating oil, beat on them some more with BFH
Tried using a long wedge chisel between the rims.

I have not used heat (penetrating oil=poof)

I am worried that too much application of over than judicious force will damage the bearings etc.

Any thoughts?

[Master Yota]

As a last resort, and it only works if you've got drum brakes - pull the axle, and wheel hub as an assy. from the spindle. Drive the wheel studs out of the hub and find a suitable steel plate to put over the face of the bearing hub. Support the tires off the ground (you need room for the hub to fall out). Drive the hub out with a big hammer. Re-install wheel studs (or replace if you'd like) and then generously coat the hub with anti-sieze on the wheel mount surface after reassembly on the to the spindle.

Most modern vehicles are "hub-centric" which means the bearing hub and bore hole in the wheel is a very tight fit, as the interface between the two is what centers the wheel. Older vehicles used the wheel studs and tapered lug nuts to center the wheel on the hub. The tapered lug nuts was a better system IMO, but more costly, thus they don't do it that way anymore.

I've been in your shoes before, its not fun...
Good luck!

[creinemann]

Thanks, mine are rear discs, I am about ready to call Jack Daniels and Johnny Walker for help. \
Mine are hub-centric for sure, as you can barely make out the seam between the hub and the wheel.

[creinemann]

this is what I wish I had, its called the Dually Buddy, garage made ingenuity, but its $269.00

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ccG90E3kNjQ
the Dually Buddy

[Lifer]

Wow! Wish I had had something like that back when I was doing a lot of truck tires!

[creinemann]

I am considering purchasing it, I still have not got these tires to budge.

[Josh]

Carl, you could try getting a slide hammer and making an "L" shaped hook to go on the end, sticking it through the holes in the rim, hooking it on the backside and slide hammering the daylights out of them.

Josh

[Master Yota]

Carl, does your disc brake rotor attach to the backside of the wheel bearing hub, or the front side? If the backside, then you can still tap the wheel studs out, and remove the duallys, hub and all from the spindle. This will let you get at everything and perhaps use a different tool to get everything appart.

[creinemann]

I'll take a look to see if the studs are accessible, Of course it snowed last night and the truck is too big for the garage.

I talked to an old farmer, he said they would take a football, place it between the tires of farm tractors and inflate the ball and (sometimes) they would come off.

[SOTVEN]

WELL I GUESS THAT IS A PREDIGAMENT. I TOO HAD SOME ISSUES WITH AN E350 DUALLY AT WORK, BUT AFTER A SHORT RIDE OVER BUMPS WITH THE LUGS LOSSENED A BIT, IT DID THE TRICK. I ASSUME YOU DO NOT CARE MUCH ABOUT THE TIRES THAT ARE ON, RIGHT? IF SO, HOW ABOUT IF YOU GET SOME OF THOSE HARD PLASTIC WEDGES THAT HOME DEPOT SELS FOR THE LUMBER JACKS (OR MAKE SOME OUT OF HARD WOOD) AND PLACE THEM INBETWEEN THE TIRES ALL AROUND AND LET THEM PROTRUDE AN INCH OR SO AROUND THE CIRCUMFERANCE. THEN DRIVE CAREFULY ON A BACKROAD AWAY FROM TRAFIC, WITH THE LUGNUTS A LITTLE LOOSE? ALSO REGARDING THE FOOTBALL, I DO NOT THINK IT WOULD EVER SUSTAIN THE PRESURE. IT WILL POP AT 15PSI, DO NOT EVEN BOTHER. IF HOWEVER(AGAIN I ASUME YOU DO NOT CARE MUCH FOR THE TIRES) DEFLATE YOUR TIRES A BIT. LOSSEN NUTS A BIT. INSERT A THICKER WEDGE ON ONE SIDE OF THE PERIMETER. INFLATE SLOWLY? PERHAPS? YOU MIGHT GET THE RESULTS THOSE GUYS GET WITH THAT BOLT. ALSO ABOUT THAT BOLT, HOW HARD WOULD IT BE IF YOU BUILT YOUR OWN FROM A 1 INCH BOLT GRADE 8? $270 IS A LOT OF MONEY IF YOU ASK ME. GOOD LUCK

[Brett]

I like sotvens Idea of deflating the tires, and inserting a block of wood between the duals and reinflating. I would use a clip on chuck though. For the inside dual maybe the same method with a block between the tire and spring pack. I worked on several duallys, and never had one that would't come loose with just a few hits from the BFH.

Best of luck
Brett

[skinnedknuckles]

Carl, Knocking the wheel studs out probably won't help if the rims are hub pilot (meaning the hub centers the rim instead of the lugnuts centering the rim with the tapered nut fitting into the taper surface on the rim) Chevy has used a tapered nut going into a plate separate from the rim with tapered holes and the rim was still hub pilot . I am not sure how Dodge does it. On all of the semis that I work on ,that have hub pilot ,that want to be stubborn I usually get the truck in the air get the lug nuts off and take my long handle BFH and give the rim and not the tire a good hard whack on the inner dual then turn the tire 180 degrees and give 'er another whack and repeat until things start moving, alittle spray Kroil helps sometimes. I don't heat anything up especially if the tire has full air pressure in it . For safety sake, I NEVER heat any part of the rim when a tire has full air pressure in it . Are the lugnuts tapered or are they flat where they contact the rim?
Hope this helps
Paul in Janesville, Wis

[Master Yota]

Driving the wheels studs out allows the whole assy. to be removed from the spindle. Lay the tires on the ground with the hub "up", place a suitable chunk of wood over the hub to protect it from the hammer, and then swing until the hub comes out of the wheels. I'm halfway though servicing a full float rear diff, so I have a very clear picture of how its held together. While this is last a resort practice, its also guaranteed to be an effective solution to your problem.

The problem with beating on the wheels, while it is effective, and a common practice, is that the wheels can be damaged if they are really siezed onto the hub. A steel wheel can be bent where the hammer strikes it, and an aluminum wheel can be broken. Steel can be bent back into position, but aluminum is hooped if you damage the wheel. Wheel studs are cheap in comparisson to a new wheel. Most tire shops prefer the hammer method because it can be a "faster" way to do things, and if they damage something, they'll go good and replace it. As you're doing this in your driveway, if you damage something you're out of pocket even more money. Plus, a large BFH is naturally drawn to the most fragile and expensive components in its vicinity. ABS sensors, brake lines, calipers, and rotors can all be damaged by that "homerun" swing...

[Juan]

I don't know if it will help but I've loosen some tough wheels that looked welded to the hub in the past by loosening the nuts enough and then driving the truck around the block a couple of times, first to the right then to the left. I've driven in eights in a parking lot a couple of times too.
It never failed.
Just my 0.2

PS. Please don't take out the nuts and go out driving, just loosen them up a couple of turns.

[Cal_Gary]

So Carl,
Did you ever conquer this? If so, how?
Thanks,
Gary