It's Engine Re-building Season at SLHS

Discuss fixes, upgrades and modifications to your M37

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ashyers
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It's Engine Re-building Season at SLHS

Post by ashyers »

The students started pulling apart the spare engine I picked up over the summer, so the fun begins.

From what I can piece together it was pulled due to a miss that the PO was unable to diagnose. When the miss reappeared with the replacement engine they discovered it was a plug wire! Unfortunately they must have driven with the miss for a while, they washed down the bore of #2... That's the bad news.

The head is a "high compression" model from the 57-59 passenger car and appears in good shape. The remainder of the engine is a T245 with no chassis #. I assume it was a replacement engine. We're going to do a bit of measuring tomorrow and see where we are. The motor looks to have been rebuilt before, hopefully not by some hammer mechanic. Judging from the date on the clutch it was done after '95. The oil pan sealing job impressive. I suspect at least one tube of RTV, if not more! At least the kids see the results. There's one mismatched rod so someone has been in there over the years.

One thing is for sure, the students really like to play with engines. They are just fascinated with them and seem to enjoy the autopsy as much as I do. It's nice to see them get jazzed about something other than their cell phones.

At the moment I'm pondering how far we're going to go with this. The goal is more hill climbing power. I don't need RPM, the governor is at 3000 now and that's fine with the 4:89's at the speeds I travel. The current motor doesn't make power above 3000 anyway! We will likely swap the head to the existing engine to get a "back to back" with a few points of compression. Then it's a matter of cost and time available. In my fantasy land I'd love to try a 3 ring piston with a different compression height to improve squish, some valves that promote a bit of sideways flow into the chamber, and an improved cam, blah, blah, blah. We'll see...

If you have any suggestions or fun ideas chime in! Maybe by the end of this I'll be able to climb at 55mph. Ok, that may be optimistic, 45mph :)!

Andy
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Re: It's Engine Re-building Season at SLHS

Post by Cal_Gary »

Wow Andy, you sure like to plunge your kids into the good stuff! Let's see some pix when you have a chance!
Thanks,
Gary
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Re: It's Engine Re-building Season at SLHS

Post by jim lee »

pix or it didn't happen!

-jim lee
ashyers
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Re: It's Engine Re-building Season at SLHS

Post by ashyers »

No rest for the wicked! Photos, photos, photos,...

(with captions of course :) )
Attachments
Ouch! Should have fixed that darn miss!!! It's still standard bore and will clean up at .020" from what I can tell.
Ouch! Should have fixed that darn miss!!! It's still standard bore and will clean up at .020" from what I can tell.
Scuffs.jpg (30.55 KiB) Viewed 2459 times
'57-'59 Passenger car head, check out the nearest chamber. Weird!
'57-'59 Passenger car head, check out the nearest chamber. Weird!
Head.jpg (34.83 KiB) Viewed 2459 times
Our oddball rod. Wonder what happened over the years????
Our oddball rod. Wonder what happened over the years????
OdballRod.jpg (40.71 KiB) Viewed 2459 times
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Re: It's Engine Re-building Season at SLHS

Post by ashyers »

and a few more!

No photos of the students today, they were too busy complaining about micrometers and snap gauges to be distracted by a camera. Seems the bore sizes change quite a bit depending on who measures 'em! Need to work on that... They think all these measuring tools are a bit of a pain. One of the crew remarked there should just have a tool with a laser and push button that will spit out the #'s. I started to describe an air gauge, but gave up and switched back to ranting at them! Anyone know of a measuring app?!?!?!

Have a good weekend!

Andy
Attachments
I'm wondering if the chamber was "cleaned up" at the factory. It sure looks strange, almost like a sloppy job with a mill...
I'm wondering if the chamber was "cleaned up" at the factory. It sure looks strange, almost like a sloppy job with a mill...
FunkyChamber.jpg (33.75 KiB) Viewed 2459 times
Close up of Cyl. 2. It's too bad it has damage, the remaining cylinders would likely clean up with a hone.
Close up of Cyl. 2. It's too bad it has damage, the remaining cylinders would likely clean up with a hone.
Scuffs,Close.jpg (26.24 KiB) Viewed 2459 times
ashyers
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Re: It's Engine Re-building Season at SLHS

Post by ashyers »

Thoughts and comments:

https://www.uempistons.com/index.php?ma ... ts_id=1561

http://www.fme-cat.com/digipubZ/sealed- ... #?page=124

I'm wondering how new compares to NOS. I know many of the manufacturers have gone overseas to cut costs and I'm curious what the quality comparison of the 2 is.
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Re: It's Engine Re-building Season at SLHS

Post by 52PLOWERWAGON »

cant wait to see progress

my parts come on monday
Thanks,TRAVIS
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Re: It's Engine Re-building Season at SLHS

Post by ashyers »

We need the combustion chamber volume of a stock M37 cylinder head to compare to our 8:1 passenger car head. Does anyone have some data? Thanks.

Andy
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Re: It's Engine Re-building Season at SLHS

Post by ashyers »

It's time to resurrect this post.

We've started on the spare motor (finally). Had some questions related to pistons, valves and dimensions.

1) What's the favorite SB Chevy valve to swap in? A P/N would be great.

2) New vs NOS pistons? Anyone have any suggestions or comments?

3) Besides the basic rebuild are there any critical dimensions/tolerances that help keep these things running a long time?

Thanks,

Andy
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Re: It's Engine Re-building Season at SLHS

Post by 52PLOWERWAGON »

do you want to buy my cam, ill sell it to you for 175 bucks

you will be able to climb hills at 55 with this cam :mrgreen:
Thanks,TRAVIS
When it comes to gambling I don't play the Powerball, I play the Powerwagon

1952 M37 FARM TRUCK
230 W/THRUSH EXHAUST, DELETED HEAT RISER AND 12 VOLT IGNITION

1941 WC RATROD
w/ 5 TON MULTIFUEL TURBO DIESEL
just me
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Re: It's Engine Re-building Season at SLHS

Post by just me »

NOS pistons. They will be better alloy and mfg method than the aftermarket. Also, they will be the correct weight and dynamic balance. New rings over NOS, this time for better modern alloys. The worst brand old stock bearings will be better than the best new bearings. Real babbit and more of it.
Can you get Stellite sodium stem valves for an SBC? That is (theoretically) what your stock exhaust valves are.
And are you going to install seats for the intakes?
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Re: It's Engine Re-building Season at SLHS

Post by ashyers »

Travis,
Thanks for the offer, but I don't think your cam is what I need. I don't need anything more than 3200 RPM, anything more and I get nervous :) .

just me,
Interesting comments on the pistons. NOS is certainly less $ if I can find the correct overbore.

I'm going to try and find some ductile iron plasma moly coated rings. I don't think I'll have success, but we'll see. I'm going to avoid the NOS chrome if I can.

No sodium filled valves here, I think they may have been used in the industrial engines, or were removed from this one long ago. I'm thinking of trying a Chevy size valve with a waisted stem.

I'm planning on leaving the intake seats alone. Hopefully the exhaust inserts are in good shape. I suspect they are, but well see.

Andy
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Re: It's Engine Re-building Season at SLHS

Post by Elwood »

just me wrote:NOS pistons. They will be better alloy and mfg method than the aftermarket. Also, they will be the correct weight and dynamic balance.
Which weight? :lol: I just balanced six NOS 0.020 O/S pistons for my build, and the weights varied considerably. Had to remove a fair amount of material from a couple of them.

Andy, if you find a source for those moly rings, please let us know where. I've searched but didn't find any.
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Re: It's Engine Re-building Season at SLHS

Post by ashyers »

Elwood,
I'm curious where you removed weight for the balancing. Any photos where you removed weight from a piston and rod? The rods have me nervous because there seem to be no balance pads of any type.

As far as rings, I'll keep you posted. I wish an old friend of mine was still around, he'd likely find 'em.

Andy
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Re: It's Engine Re-building Season at SLHS

Post by RMS »

with the mixed matched rods maybe you should be looking for a set of 218 rods and increase the rod ratio. wouldn't have to think about stock pistion or not :P
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