Correct bumper numbering?

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NAM VET
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Correct bumper numbering?

Post by NAM VET »

Having painted my truck the other day, although I am going to re-shoot the hood, I am about ready to put the numbers and stars and such on it. I have read threads about bumper numbers and such, but still have some decisions to make. First, what unit to honor. I am trying to decide between my first active duty unit, A company, first battalion, first brigade, 3d Infantry division. To which I was first posted as a newly minted 2nd Lt in late '69 in Schweinfurt, Germany. My battalion's heritage goes back to the Marne battle in WWII. The 3d ID was, and is, a historic division in our our nation's wars.

My other choice is to honor my Special Forces unit, where I was an A Team commander in '71-72. I was CO of ODA (Operational Detachment and I can't recall what the "A" stood for) A/1/5. Or A company, 1st team, 5th Special Forces. Special Forces units are not organized like conventional units. For instance, the teams are numbered consecutively, 1-XX in the Group. My team's designation, A/1/5 was specific enough to place it precisely in the Army's unit list.

But our SF unit had no vehicles! We went where we were sent by parachute. I know my company had no vehicles, perhaps Battalion HQ had some. So there is no actual bumper number that would apply to my team, or A company.

But if we had actually had a vehicle, I am thinking the passenger bumper would be: 1/5th SFGA (Special Forces Group Airborne), the driver's bumper some made up number, use A1 on the driver's side.

If i use my unit in the 3d ID, where I had four M113's in my platoon, it would be: passenger side 1/1/3d ID and driver side A1.

and any advice on how to use use stencils especially on the curve of the hood?

NV
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Re: Correct bumper numbering?

Post by rickf »

Drivers side would be the vehicle number.
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Re: Correct bumper numbering?

Post by Cal_Gary »

You might obtain cardboard stencils in order to shape them to the hood curvature-2 inch, Gothic as I recall.
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Re: Correct bumper numbering?

Post by milstencil »

NV,
Here's 3rd div in Germany approx 1960 up:

Image

You will have figure out where you are in the box:
3-1/30-I ?-?? ?=company ??=vehicle order of march.

on the 5SF:
looking at a buddy's markings that I did years ago, he had SFA-1SF (Special Forces Airborne)-1st Special Forces
Yours could be: SFA-5SF OD-A-? ?=vehicle order of march or if you didn't have any vehicles it could have been
a service vehicle drawn from the Motor Pool and would have been marked SV-?

I not really sure on the Sf markings, just pulling from old info.
Rick
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health care and failed gun control! See what the Democrats can do
when they control both houses.
http://www.militarystencils.com
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Re: Correct bumper numbering?

Post by NAM VET »

very interesting!! I have reviewed even again this AM your website. My unit was 1-30 infantry, Schweinfurt, A company. By my time in the 3d ID, the historic Regimental designation, 1/30, dating back to the Marne Battle in WWI, was no longer officially used, we were battalions and brigades, and no longer a regiment. By the way, Audi Murphy, the WWII young hero, was in the 2nd 15th. He died in a plane crash very near my sisters home in the Blue Ridge Mountains in VA. There is a small monument on her property on the New River, at the tiny creek, where Mary Engles made her way back, near dead, after having traveled back over 500 miles after having been captured at Draper's Meadow, near Blacksburg, VA, about 1700. Truly an epic story of survival. The pulitzer prize winning book "Follow the River" is a fictionalized account of this truly unbelievable true early American story of Mary Engles" travel. Her land also includes Sinking Creek, where the retreating raiding Indians crossed the New River.

I just read the web history of the 5th SF group, and I had not followed the changes in designations since I was in the Group so long ago. Only HQ had any vehicles; I know the teams and line companies did not. We were glad not to have to deal with the career-killing maintenance of army vehicles. For instance, the 5th Group's official name then was SFGA, for Special Forces Group Airborne. So while the passenger bumper would state something like your suggestion, I will have make up some fictitious number for the driver's side. I am about to order a set of cardboard stencils from you, and will seek your help in the correct numbering for my bumpers. Probably honoring my time with the 5th Group. Of all the things I have been able to accomplish or experience in my life, earning the right to wear my Beret with the then 5th Group's flash is the most important to me. I was never a hero, but sure knew some. Like 5 SF troops who were awarded the MOH, two of my 14 man team had been so honored. Plus hearing how the Son Tay raid went down from those who were on Bull Simmon's mission. Some real stories about that. For one, there was no escape plan if it all went to hell. They were on their own, no rescue for them was planned. Or how my little team and a few others were to be dropped between the Israeli and Egyptian forces in the '73 war, to be sacrificed so the US could have an excuse to intervene if the Israeli forces were going to have to use Nukes to avoid having their country overrun.

So many memories....

Thanks for your help, I'll soon be in touch.
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Re: Correct bumper numbering?

Post by k8icu »

Doc, your bumper markings per Army Regs should like like this

From Left to right: Highest Headquarters, Next Highest Headquarters to assigned unit, Assigned Unit and Order of march. (position of vehicle in convoy)

So for your first unit as new Lt would be looking at the vehicle from your left to right 3I 1BN A1 or if you want I've also seen 3I 1BDE/1BN A1 (if you are the first vehicle in the convoy)

My first unit as a new LT was 5 BDE 53P 531-6 (5th Brigade 53rd Military Police 531st MP Company, Vehicle number 6).

Hope that helps.
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Re: Correct bumper numbering?

Post by 808morgan »

I found this picture of my original bumpers. I can't really read the left side but I can use the info on this page to figure out as much as I can. Good info thanks. I do know my truck is an M42 command truck so that could help I guess, HHB goes along with that.
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Re: Correct bumper numbering?

Post by NAM VET »

I watched several Utube video's of how to paint the stencils, which I got from Rick Larsen. My son and I masked off properly, and it worked best to have both of us carefully lay on the adhesive stencils. After measuring and lining up where they should go, he would lay down a leading edge, while I carefully held up the other end, as he smoothed the stencil down. I think it is exceedingly helpful to have four hands to do this, otherwise it would be very easy to get a wrinkle or worse yet, let the adhesive sides touch, ruining the stencil. Then we used an oil based satin white Rustoleum, with lots of very light sprays, allowing 30 seconds or more to let each very light coat slightly dry and this way we had no runs. It took about 10-15 or more light sprays to cover the OD paint. Then quickly pulled off the stencil. Where the stencil had an "inner" cover, for want of some better wording, like in the insides of numbers, we used a sharp pick to lift up an edge to pull it off. A tweezers helped here. We found the fine spray from the "spray any angle" can misted a lot, so masked a lot more of the truck than just around the stencil. In the end, the paint had perfect edges, and is so smooth it feels and looks like a decal. The key was multiple very light mist coats with time to flash dry. I decided to move the door stars up a few inches from centered on the door, otherwise they look somehow low if perfectly centered on the door. Here is a pic of a hood decal which we notched for the hood hold-up latch. The slight paint runs were the best I could do with my paint gun. I sanded and repainted the doors and hood several times learning how to "shoot" the Gillespie 2407. In order to apply the stencil for the passenger side hood numbers, we had to put the stencil a few inches further to the rear on the hood to get it notched for the hood hold-up latch.

NV
[url=https://postimg.org/image/hlxtx20i ... .jpg[/img][/url]

note door stars slightly higher than centered, and we later wiped off the faint mist which seemed to float everywhere even thru our masking.

[url=https://postimg.org/image/5wtu93h9 ... .jpg[/img][/url]
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Re: Correct bumper numbering?

Post by 808morgan »

[quote="NAM VET"]I watched several Utube video's of how to paint the stencils, which I got from Rick Larsen. My son and I masked off properly, and it worked best to have both of us carefully lay on the adhesive stencils. After measuring and lining up where they should go, he would lay down a leading edge, while I carefully held up the other end, as he smoothed the stencil down. I think it is exceedingly helpful to have four hands to do this, otherwise it would be very easy to get a wrinkle or worse yet, let the adhesive sides touch, ruining the stencil. Then we used an oil based satin white Rustoleum, with lots of very light sprays, allowing 30 seconds or more to let each very light coat slightly dry and this way we had no runs. It took about 10-15 or more light sprays to cover the OD paint. Then quickly pulled off the stencil. Where the stencil had an "inner" cover, for want of some better wording, like in the insides of numbers, we used a sharp pick to lift up an edge to pull it off. A tweezers helped here. We found the fine spray from the "spray any angle" can misted a lot, so masked a lot more of the truck than just around the stencil. In the end, the paint had perfect edges, and is so smooth it feels and looks like a decal. The key was multiple very light mist coats with time to flash dry. I decided to move the door stars up a few inches from centered on the door, otherwise they look somehow low if perfectly centered on the door. Here is a pic of a hood decal which we notched for the hood hold-up latch. The slight paint runs were the best I could do with my paint gun. I sanded and repainted the doors and hood several times learning how to "shoot" the Gillespie 2407. In order to apply the stencil for the passenger side hood numbers, we had to put the stencil a few inches further to the rear on the hood to get it notched for the hood hold-up latch.



For sure adhesive stencils work best, I am actually in the Local 510 Sign and Display union in SF, so I do a lot of graphics and masking, I wrap whole buildings too. Even good vinyl decals could look nice these days if people didn't want to paint their truck, good 3M control tac will last 5 years if cared for. We call removing the unwanted part, "weeding" and in the old days they had to do that for everything, we get computer cut stuff and it's easy, sounds like you had pre cut. We use sharp graphics knives and squeegees, a good squeegee meant for graphics will make a perfect seal. If anyone has any trouble you can ask me anything, if you are in the Bay Area I can do it for you!
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Re: Correct bumper numbering?

Post by Cal_Gary »

Those certainly turned out very nice, Nam Vet-well done!
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