Just another engine build thread. Sort of.

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just me
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Just another engine build thread. Sort of.

Post by just me »

Knowing that I was never going to restore the Rolling Roadblock when I bought it, that it was just going to be an everyday driver, the civilian engine that had been transplanted into it didn't bother me.
But, after time and constant maintenance to the truck, it was getting more and more back to stock and original fitment all around. The homemade hardtop is gone and original bows and canvas have replaced it. The bed stakes and troop seats have been installed, The cargo cover and all its parts have been installed. The instrumentation is all back to original as is 95% of the wiring. After replacing the fuel and brake lines, and just having to terminate the vents in the engine compartment, the lack of the correct fittings in the engine bay started to gnaw at me.
So, after time, I managed to procure a correct T-245 core engine (at too high a price for a core, but it did come with all the 24V stuff, too.) to build. Upon initial disassembly, the crank was found to be damaged beyond what I am willing to repair by a spun number 3 rod bearing. The number 3 rod was also suspect at that time.
A bit of searching a luck turned up a Std/Std crank only 100 miles away. (But at typical high expense.) I was able to remove that crank from its damaged block and also get replacement rods from it.
The block was .020" overbore to start with enough taper and out of round to need to be bored again. As luck would have it, at the next swap meet, I managed to get a full set of NOS pistons and pins for $40. The first score of the engine process.
The set was .040" so when the block was machined, it was matched to the new pistons. I feel very much happier with Dodge pistons over any aftermarket pistons. The rings will fit and the manufacturing and alloy are almost always better.
So, The engine parts were sent to the machine shop, the rest were here at the house and the shop for cleaning, inspection and refurbishment.
Turns out the number 3 rod was damaged beyond sound repair, so one of the new ones got put in the mix. All the rods were checked for twists and bends and repaired as needed. The big ends brought back to new specs, the length checked and the small ends rebushed and reamed. The pistons and pins fitted and set aside.
The new crank was polished and checked for runout, the cam checked for size, runout, wear.
The block was vatted, the bores bored and honed. The valve seats touched up, the valves ground and the tappet stems ground and the guides checked by the machine shop. The head was Magnafluxed and milled flat and the block was checked for flatness and was found to be well within spec.
Brought it all home to start the build.
"It may be ugly, but at least it is slow!"
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Re: Just another engine build thread. Sort of.

Post by just me »

There is a reason I do the build and do not let the machine shop do it. We live on different standards. What is OK to them is unacceptable to me. When an engine gets built here, it is back to factory new specs. No sense spending the time and money to have things on the ragged edge of service limits.
Sometimes this means things get done more than once.
"It may be ugly, but at least it is slow!"
just me
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Re: Just another engine build thread. Sort of.

Post by just me »

After getting all the stuff back clean from the machine shop, it was time to start careful measurement.
The valve stems were all over the map with some in spec but most living on the edge of service wear limits. Just ordered all new valves
The tappets were good as far as measurement goes, but, the machine shop threw out the block I made to keep them in order so the same tappet would go on the same cam lobe. They just threw them into a box. I probably still would not have run them at this point. That was confirmed when I found pitting on a couple of them. A shop in California was recommended to resurface the tappets. I just ordered new ones. More costly, but way quicker and I won't have a nagging suspicion they are going to just wear instantly.
To check the guides and tappet bores, I followed the TM. Again, with the wear in the valve stems, the measurements were too close to the service limits for me.
This means a trip back to the machine shop to have the guides bushed. Since we have the capability to rebush the existing guides, I would rather do this than stress the block pounding out and in new valve guides.
Waiting on parts to finish reaming and fitting.
Lot of ancillary items to paint in the mean time.
Also a carb, starter, distributor and generator to service.
"It may be ugly, but at least it is slow!"
NAM VET
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Re: Just another engine build thread. Sort of.

Post by NAM VET »

I think we are pretty much on the same time-line with our trucks and powerplants. I am having the machine shop, the owner and I have known each other for two decades, do those things I cannot. I trust his judgment and measurements. He will install the new valves and springs, onto new seats, and loan me his tappet wrenches to set the final cold clearances. He is putting the cam into new bearings, too. Then I will ring the pistons, and put them in the block, and put the rest of my engine together. Charles T has rebuilt my carb and generator and starter, and my OEM fuel pump, although I am going to put that on the shelf, and block off the pump site anyway. I have repainted the fenders and shields and radiator and such, and the rest of the parts I have off the front of my truck, and recently finished new brake/fuel/vent lines. My distributor is the OEM one. After I am sure my motor starts and runs, I will put the metal back on. I have previously cut new bed wood, and have a full set of bows and metal. Just put new exhaust hangers in.

I really, really want to get my truck back on the road. Wish you well with your own build, and lets hope when we spin our motors after they are back in, they sputter to life, and then pick up a steady idle.

NV
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Re: Just another engine build thread. Sort of.

Post by NAM VET »

dropped by my machine shop this afternoon, spent some hours today at a state range, no one there but just two of us, I took my Mk 5 303 Enfield Jungle Carbine, my 257 Weatherby, my 1903A3, my AR, and a few pistols, and a good friend and I shot and shot. My shoulder is sore, the 303 kicks like a mule, and the narrow rubber "recoil pad" doesn't help a bit. The Weatherby is a one hole gun at 100 yards, the iron-sighted military rifles are maybe 3 inches, but the front blades pretty much cover the bull anyway. I reload for all my firearms. I recently had Cylinder & Slide out in NE make up a really nice Browning High Power, the practical version, and it is absolutely accurate, was hitting beer cans at twenty yards easy as pie. I had this one made for my younger daughter.

The machine shop owner told me he would have my new valve seats in monday, and my motor is ready to come home. My motor did have one different, and much heavier rod, so VPW sent me a NOS rod, and they all then were very close, actually only about 10 grams difference, but now they are all the same down to the gram. He balanced and checked my crank, so it should be a much more balanced motor now that it ever was, with that heavy rod replaced. Yesterday, cleaned and painted my winch. I ordered a new oil pressure spring and plunger from VPW, but then realized it must have gotten lost in the mail, so ordered another one yesterday, and an hour later, checked the mail, and there was the first one, so have a spare now. Ended up with two rear main inner seals the same way this week, too.

So, I am all ready to get my motor back, and start to reassemble it.

all the best..

NV
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Re: Just another engine build thread. Sort of.

Post by just me »

Am done with the customer job, have the engine back from the machine shop for the second time. The engine build started today. Need to be done by next weekend with the build. That is usually enough time for us. About 40-50 hours for a full assembly.
Re ran all the measurements that were bad enough to send it back for remachining and this time the numbers are where I want them. All inside the new specs in the manual. The valves, guides and seats are great. The tappets correctly fit the bores. Cylinders are within 3 tenths out of round and taper and the individual bores are all within 1 thousandths of each other large to small. All the threads are chased, an initial brushing out of the oil passages and galley are done. Tomorrow the whole thing will get it's hot soapy bath and all the grit and debris will be cleaned off. Need to wash down the crank at that time also.
The fun part begins.

And off topic, yesterday was my dad's 90th birthday. So we loaded up 3 generations and headed up the mountain to see him and go to lunch and that sort of family stuff. After all, you only do 90 once or twice in a lifetime.
During the conversation, pop was mentioning how his long barrel single action was just getting too heavy for him and was no longer a good choice for home defense. I swapped my little carry gun with him. Now he can use it if he needs it. (An SP101 hammerless snub nose .357) he also gave back my Ted Yost 1911 I loaned him maybe 10 years ago. Said he no longer has the strength to operate the slide. As he said, "it's hell to get old, worse if you don't!".
"It may be ugly, but at least it is slow!"
just me
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Re: Just another engine build thread. Sort of.

Post by just me »

Today was clean the block day. To get it truly clean, it takes time. Like about 5 hours of continuous work. The tappets are cleaned of cosmoline and assembled. The oil pump has been checked and cleaned. Also, the cam was inspected even though I paid the machine shop to do it. If they had done the engine assembly, they would have used it. And I wouldn't have been happy. One of the lobes is junk. Two journals don't meet my (or Chrysler's) level of finish and the pump cam is garbage. Guess I'll be ordering a new cam tomorrow.
"It may be ugly, but at least it is slow!"
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Re: Just another engine build thread. Sort of.

Post by isaac_alaska »

Wonder if Travis still has his new high performance vpw cam
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Re: Just another engine build thread. Sort of.

Post by just me »

I won't run a used cam unless I have the tappets it was running on and in the same order. And since these are regrinds of a stock cam, they are basically limited to just moving the torque curve around. I can do that by small changes in cam timing. Retard it 1 to 1-1/2 degrees and it will move the torque higher in the RPM range. Easy enough to do with an offset key.
"It may be ugly, but at least it is slow!"
just me
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Re: Just another engine build thread. Sort of.

Post by just me »

Last night was measure the crank and more cleaning. Ordered a new cam. It will be here Friday. The crank was good on taper and roundness. Getting close to the service limits for a standard crank. (within .0005 at the worst.) It is not a smooth as I would like so I may grind it 1 or 2 thousandths and swap the bearings. Tonight is piston fitting and ring gap setting night.
"It may be ugly, but at least it is slow!"
just me
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Re: Just another engine build thread. Sort of.

Post by just me »

Cam, rear main seal, rod lock washers and nuts arrived today. Opened the box the cam was in and it was filled with disappointment. After the usual hour of cleaning off the Cosmoline, found that the lobes are all perfect. Every journal has rust damage. Not going to spend the time trying to return it and go through this agIn with another cam. The thing was well covered in Cosmoline, it just didn't work as planned.
Took it to the local cam grinder to see if he can polish the journals. If not grind them under and replace the new cam bearings with oversized ones.
Everything else is perfect. Just stopped any assembly this holiday weekend. Rings have all been gap fitted and installed on pistons, crank is done. The rest of the parts are on hand. Guess I'll make the front cover alignment tool Saturday then go to the small local veterans cemetery and do some tidying up for Monday's ceremonies.
"It may be ugly, but at least it is slow!"
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Re: Just another engine build thread. Sort of.

Post by NAM VET »

I talked with VPW the other day, asked about crank/rod lock washers, (I have new bolts and nuts) he told me that while their intent is good, that sometimes there is a tiny burr on a mating surface, which can later "wear or pound in", thus making the rod bolt/lock washer have less tension, and causing some possibility of the bolt/nut backing off. Or something like that. He suggested no lock washer, just Locktite on the bolt/nut package. Then too, however, since I can't flatten the rod holes where the bolts go, maybe a lock washer can absorb a tiny "burr" or the like.

I like to put every mating surface on a fine diamond stone; I do this for my gun magazines and other critical mating parts, and sometimes I can then see where indeed there was some tiny "burr" or like. In the past year, having read countless hundreds of posts here and on other M 37 forums, I have not see where a rod failed because of a lost bolt/nut. I believe on most modern motors, no lock washer is used, just precise "rod stretch" and precise torque does the job.

Any consensus on lock washers on the rod bolts?

NV
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Re: Just another engine build thread. Sort of.

Post by just me »

A 'tiny' burr wouldn't seem an issue. A normal burr would. I make sure the mating surfaces are clean and flat. I don't over think the Dodge engineers. There have been just a few of these engines made over their short production run. Rod failures from loose nuts hasn't been a big issue. And since getting the original thin lockwashers isn't possible, the available thicker ones are less likely to 'lose tension'.
"It may be ugly, but at least it is slow!"
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Re: Just another engine build thread. Sort of.

Post by Elwood »

I found one source for the OEM lockwashers: http://arizonaparts.com/ordernotes.txt

He didn't have many left when I ordered some back in March, so he may be out by now, but he was the only place I found them after a lot of searching.
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Re: Just another engine build thread. Sort of.

Post by just me »

Well, got the cam back from polishing the journals and inspected and cleaned it. That is ready to go in. Couldn't work on it last night as that was club meeting night and I had an upholstery job to finish up also.
Tonight the assembly can finally begin. Everything is cleaned. Twice. Everything is inspected and measured. Twice. I'm fairly certain I have EVERYTHING now. All bolt threads have been chased, all gaskets and materials are at hand.
All assembly tools are collected or made.
(Any bets on what bolloxes up the works?)
"It may be ugly, but at least it is slow!"
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