Just another engine build thread. Sort of.

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just me
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Re: Just another engine build thread. Sort of.

Post by just me »

tools.jpg
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tool1.jpg
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It's a Long Block now
It's a Long Block now
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"It may be ugly, but at least it is slow!"
NAM VET
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Re: Just another engine build thread. Sort of.

Post by NAM VET »

studying your pictures. A question, which front timing cover seal did you choose to use. The Blue one that comes in the Best Gasket kit? Did you put the front plate and cover gaskets on dry, or with some sealant on them? I can only take the heat and humidity in my garage for a couple of hours, even with fans, so I am a day behind you. I found three bolts in my shop return parts that had a small "shoulder" just under the bolt heads, and am using them for the bottom of the front plate. Maybe reduces oil seepage? Loctite anything? I used new main cover lock washers under my main bolts. Did you use new or no special lock washers under your rod bolt heads? I can order them, but it will take several weeks to have them in hand. I think I will use no washer but Blue Loctite on my rod bolts. An oil slinger under the front timing cover seal?

What did you set your ring clearance at? I went with my Grant rings, .011 on all of the cast rings. Any hints for me would be greatly appreciated. By the way, in the back ground of your garage you have some nice equipment.

NV
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expansion rings are tricky!

Post by NAM VET »

My old removed pistons have four ring grooves, the lower two are both perforated oil control rings. My new pistons have the fourth oil control ring, but the third groove now takes a thin wrinkly expander, which pushes out two very thin rings for more oil control. The Grant instructions are adamant that the ends of the wrinkly expander have to precisely meet, red touching green, to expand the two thin rings. Easy enough.

Except I am Green-Red colorblind, and had to use a magnifier to be sure one did not overlap the other. Which they did very easily when slipping the thin rings on. So used a tiny pick to lift one end over the other. But if I slipped just a little one end or the other would lift out of the groove and then be over a thin ring. Which of course then could not fit back under a thin ring. I worked on one expander set for over an hour, tying to not bend one of the three parts. I finally had to remove expander and both thin rings, not an easy thing to do when the expander is over a thin ring. And start over. I found it very easy for the red/green ends to slip over one another, with the slightest provocation. And it would be easy to see some green and some red, and yet still have one or the other sightly over the other, and not butted. Again, i had to use a big magnifying glass to see that the two half mm ends butted and did not overlap.

I finally found it easier to use a tiny flat tip screwdriver to hold the ends into the groove, while I wound the thin rings into place. The first ring has plenty of room, the second ring has a much tighter fit, and again, it is easy to nudge the butted ends out of place. The instructions are specific as to where the ends of the red/green go, and where the two thin rings are clocked. It is very difficult to spin a thin ring to where it should go after installed, it is a tight fit in the groove. So install the thin rings where the ends are to be, moving them later is hard. And when done, handle the piston/rod gently, so some rap doesn't bump the butts over one another.

Oh, I was not planning on re-using the old special rod lock washers, just Blue Loctite on my rod bolts. But taking the caps off for inspection, noted the washers, which have lost most of their spring, are necessary to fill the washer counterbore under the nut. So will reinstall them to give the nuts a flat surface to bear on, and still use the Loctite.

Being color blind (all dark colors just look dark to me, I can't tell one from another) sent my life in a totally different direction. I took a Navy ROTC admission physical and only found out then I was color blind, and thus not eligible to follow my dad into navy aviation. A good friend's dad had just returned from commanding all 5th Group units in Vietnam, and told me to go Army ROTC, and someday maybe I too could earn my own Beret. Six year later, I put my own Green Beret on. Back then, us SF guys were the only troops authorized to wear a beret, that distinction given us by President Kennedy. The whole beret thing has been diluted down a lot since, everybody wears them. In the early '70's at Bragg, if you wore your beret into a bar downtown you either got into a bar fight with some guys from the 82'nd, or walked out with the hottest female bartender.

pizza and a beer for lunch Competition shoot this PM

NV
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Re: Just another engine build thread. Sort of.

Post by just me »

NAM VET wrote:studying your pictures. A question, which front timing cover seal did you choose to use. The Blue one that comes in the Best Gasket kit? Did you put the front plate and cover gaskets on dry, or with some sealant on them? I can only take the heat and humidity in my garage for a couple of hours, even with fans, so I am a day behind you. I found three bolts in my shop return parts that had a small "shoulder" just under the bolt heads, and am using them for the bottom of the front plate. Maybe reduces oil seepage? Loctite anything? I used new main cover lock washers under my main bolts. Did you use new or no special lock washers under your rod bolt heads? I can order them, but it will take several weeks to have them in hand. I think I will use no washer but Blue Loctite on my rod bolts. An oil slinger under the front timing cover seal?

What did you set your ring clearance at? I went with my Grant rings, .011 on all of the cast rings. Any hints for me would be greatly appreciated. By the way, in the back ground of your garage you have some nice equipment.

NV
The seal that came in the FelPro set. It excludes the use of the slinger, but that is the breaks.
I use an anerobic sealant on all surfaces.
I use Permatex #2 on any bolt not in a blind hole. Especially the ones into the water jacket.

I used Hastings rings. I made a bore gauge honed to size to check rings in. Since they were all within the mfg. spec without filing, I didn't have to fool with any of that. Top, 2nd and 3rd rings are different than the profile of the stock ones. So all specs in the original manual are out the window.

You have to use lock washers under the older style rods. They have a recess that they fill. I won't reuse the old ones. Socket head cap screw lock washers are the same ID and OD. They are thicker than the originals but I still get a couple threads of stick out so are good. I have one newer rod that doesn't use a lock washer. It is just torqued to spec. I still worry a bit about that and may use a deformed thread nut on it if it is feasible.
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Re: Just another engine build thread. Sort of.

Post by just me »

Oh, and the Hastings 3rd ring 3 part oil control rings were easy to install and overlap is obvious if it happens.
"It may be ugly, but at least it is slow!"
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Re: Just another engine build thread. Sort of.

Post by NAM VET »

A correction, I will certainly use correct washers under my rod nuts.

Nv
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Re: Just another engine build thread. Sort of.

Post by NAM VET »

I spent the better part of two hours trying to fit the new timing chain on the new timing big sprocket, but it just lacked several mm of working. Tried the new chain and old sprocket, and old chain with new sprocket, and recalling the post of another forum members, with a too tight chain wrecking his cam gear, I called VPW, and John there said the new one is indeed tight, but can be pulled on with substantial effort.

So in the end, put on the new big sprocket, and my old chain, and checked the TM for the slack wear limit, which is 3/4 inches of deviation, and since I have a bit less than a half inch, went ahead and buttoned up the front timing cover Put the big four groove pulley in the oven to expand the hole, inserted a new key, and slipped it on.

Then on to reinstall the oil pick up an crossover, recalling the admonition to put some sealing compound on the threads, and then put on the sump. More about that later, with pictures, Not so easy, even with the block turned up side down on my motor stand.

NV
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Re: Just another engine build thread. Sort of.

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Been doing other things most of the week. But tonight did a full valve adjustment, installed the flywheel and clutch assembly. Installed (temporarily) the bell housing and painted a few more items. Tomorrow morning while it is still cool out, will roll the gantry crane into the shop to stand it up on the table and get the head and manifolds on it.
I had no issues getting the timing chain on. Pressed the lower sprocket on the crank, hung the chain on the cam sprocket and put it and the chain in place and bolted it up.
Have to get the starter, generator and distributor rebuilds done.
Have to come up with a good ETW1 to finish it off.
Will be cool to have a correct engine in the truck. And the old engine will get hot rodded with all the speed parts and put into something around here.
"It may be ugly, but at least it is slow!"
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Re: Just another engine build thread. Sort of.

Post by NAM VET »

My old timing chain was a Morse, the new shiny one unmarked. Likely some foreign part. The new one's links just would not fit completely down in the recesses or grooves in the big sprocket, perhaps a mm from contact with the bottom, whereas the old chain did, even on the new sprocket. Enough to make the new chain/big sprocket just too tight, I am not sure I could have stretched it to get the big sprocket back on the cam end. So went with my still in-spec old chain on the new cam sprocket.

Heated the big four groove pulley to 200 degrees, put the frozen key in the keyway, after mounting the front motor mount, and rapped the pulley on with a dead blow hammer. I had a great fear when I heard a metallic ding when it was about on, and thought something inside the front cover had had come loose, and I was going to have to pull it all off to see what had happened. Then realized there is nothing that can come loose inside, and my "ding" was just the front motor mount banging against the motor because of the rubber mount flexing with my rapping. I have this nagging fear that somehow, something will go wrong after all these months and money and effort. A month ago, Charles T rebuild my carb assembly, starter, generator, and fuel pump, although I will not use the pump.

The big cork end gaskets on the sump are a real pain, sticking down so much, but the TM and experience of others insists they not be cut off, as they will compress to seal at the ends of front and rear circular engine arcs. I can't imagine replacing a sump/gasket from under the truck. I put in temporary corner studs to hold the gasket in place, as the rail gaskets tended to push out from the cork. Then on the suggestions of others, used non hardening copper Permatex on both sides of the rail gasket and at the ends where they meet the proud cork, but in order to not warp the sump rails trying to pull it down onto the block, used my woodworking clamps to force the ends down over the cork, then used ARP fasteners (because I have them) to attach the sump to the block. One bolt hole was striped from a prior rebuild, so i screwed in a helicoil in that one, and will use a 1/4 20 bolt in that one. I am not sure it was right to put the sealant on both sides of the gasket, because I don't think the sump can come off easily from below in the future. But I don't plan on another rebuild no matter what happens when I run my truck.

My son came up in his Lotus Elise last pm, to help me the rebuild this weekend. In the 40+ years I practiced pediatrics, long ago I gained confidence in my decisions, and slept soundly, and never had a worry about what I was doing, or had done. But now I often wake up with a concern or worry about how am I going to do this, or have I forgotten that. So I have started ticking off each project in my TM as it is completed. My bearing clearances are fine, the pistons go up and down, the timing mark on the big pulley is exact with at TDC, and I have done each step with meticulous attention to detail and instruction. These motors are pretty simple, and I am sure were rebuilt by the thousands by mechanics with less precise tools and measurements than I have. And not always with vast experience in these motors. My motor seemed to run fine with broken rings and bad valves, so surely it will run well with all that I have done, or had done so far.

But yet.....
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Re: Just another engine build thread. Sort of.

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Don't think it can be seen in my pics, but every nut or bolt has inspection paint on it if it is torqued and done. Same with the valve train as it got adjusted. I don't tick off the stuff in the manual as I don't like writing in my books. But, I also have the advantage of a lot of engine rebuild experience.
I have a great old auto electric shop here in town to do my starter and generator. I can do it myself, but waiting for any needed parts is a pain.
I've obtained couple of carbs, but they are just not rebuildable. I'm leary of buying anymore without in hand inspection. I could make one from what I have if I could obtain a good main body. The truck is going to have to run on a B&B civilian unit in the meantime.
"It may be ugly, but at least it is slow!"
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Re: Just another engine build thread. Sort of.

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timingset.jpg
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Here is the timing set I used. US sprockets, Mexican chain. Went on perfectly and the finishes were beautiful.
"It may be ugly, but at least it is slow!"
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Re: Just another engine build thread. Sort of.

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Getting closer
It's beginning to look a lot like engine.
It's beginning to look a lot like engine.
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Had to change the core plug and get the stuck plug out before mounting
table.jpg
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"It may be ugly, but at least it is slow!"
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Re: Just another engine build thread. Sort of.

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While mulling over today's tasks at breakfast, I came upon an idea for a tool to install the studs for the manifolds. Made one at lunch and shock of shocks, it worked! And very well. I think I need to do a patent search on this kajigger.
"It may be ugly, but at least it is slow!"
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Re: Just another engine build thread. Sort of.

Post by NAM VET »

We are moving along at about the same pace. My son came up from Columbia and we worked some on my truck, mostly to put the claw on the front, and the intake manifold, and a few small parts. We just got home from the MUMMY movie, fun to watch, and on the way home I started thinking about how to make up an engine cradle, to make mounting my flywheel and bell housing and trans on my engine easier, and not have do to to it dangling and swaying on the hook on my hoist. Your's looks nice, but I don't have much ability to do metal work, so think I will make up one out of oak. I lacked the three longer ARP studs for the head, so they are coming in a day or so from VPW, so the head has to wait. By the way, I went to ACE and bought some hardened studs and used two of them to mount my water pump to the front of the motor, and one Grade 8 bolt for the third hole. Sealant on them of course.

a picture. This is before I put on the sump, the picture is from an angle, the oil pick up actually does aim perfectly at proper main bolt head. Sealant on these too. I reused my old crossover OEM pipe, as the VPW new one just wouldn't quite make the angle necessary to fit to the block. And your chain is different than mine, which came unmarked in a zip lock bag, and just wouldn't fit on my two sprockets. Wish I had had your chain. I am too far along to go back and do it over again. My old chain was within spec for deflection. VPW said to just pull hard, but I think that would have placed too much wear on the front cam bearing. So another unused part.
[URL=http://s663.photobucket.com/user/h ... .jpg[/img][/url]
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Re: Just another engine build thread. Sort of.

Post by NAM VET »

on the advice of another forum member by PM, i used the copper anerobic sealant on my sump gasket, both sides, going to be hard to ever pull it off from under the truck. The proud cork end gaskets sure look like it would be best to trim the half inch on each end, but not supposed to do that, so put sealant there too, but all that gasketing tended to push my side gaskets out of place, so put a stud in each corner, to hold them, and then to keep from warping the pan rails by just using the bolts to pull the sump down to the block, used my woodworking camps to do that, then put in the bolts. I did put tape over any block openings before I got near the motor with any bolts or washers. What a disaster to drop a fastener down into the sump!!
[URL=http://s663.photobucket.com/user/h ... .jpg[/img][/url]
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