351W Mods

[JimC]

Wow, that's almost twice what we pay for premium mogas here. I can buy avgas for that.
Oh, I'll bet you use Imperial gallons and not U.S. gallons. Is that $6 Canadian?

I have an experimental 9.5:1 O-200 that I run on 93 octane mogas at 28 degrees TDC. I think it would do OK on regular 87.

[Master Yota]

Yes, our Imperial Gallon is slightly larger at 4.6L per 1 gallon conversion. I believe the US conversion is 4L per gallon.

Regular fuel today is 1.30 per Liter which works out to$5.98 per Imp. gallon. FOR REGULAR 87 octane... Premium is usually about $0.20 cents more per liter, so its closer to $7.00 dollars per Imp. gallon. The price of Diesel is usually somewhere in between lately. And this is the lull before the storm; I fully expect regular gas to hit somewhere around $7-7.25 per gallon this summer. Talk about getting the shaft at the pump.

That's why my M37 runs on propane...Its half the cost.

I figure 9.5:1 is a good baseline compression ratio, it'll run well on 87 octane regular, yet it'll still respond to some increase in timing if its worth ponying up for some premium. Plus, the quality of gasoline varies a little bit, so 9.5 will always run on regular if premium isn't available...

[JimC]

I U.S. gallon = 3.785 liter.
Are those prices Canadian dollars?
If so, you are paying U.S. $4.50 per U.S. gallon for premium.
It is averaging $3.30 here.
Avgas is going for $5.00 locally.

[Master Yota]

Prices are in Canadian. If I was paying in US funds, I'd have to decrease the price by 10%, to allow for the difference in value between the Can. and US dollar... But it would cost me 10% to convert my Canadian dollars into US dollars, so either way I'm still getting screwed at the pump.

[JimC]

Ain't no doubt

Would you tell me more specifics for your plans for the 390 build for the Mustang?

[Master Yota]

I don't have anything written in stone just yet.

My goal was to shoot for around 400hp. I'm not looking for a quarter mile car, but more of a sleeper build. Mild mannered enough for the wife to drive to work, yet still put a smile on my face when I want it to. A 351 will make that power with little investment beyond a standard rebuild with little more than finding a good pair of GT40 heads and warming them up with some port and polish work and good valve job. The heads need the most work as Ford left a lot on the table in their design with small runners and small valves. Car and truck heads in the Windsor line are very similar according to my research, so both can benefit from head work, or outright head replacement with an aftermarket set.

Capping the heads with quality valve train is the next step. A full set of adjustable rockers (the oem rockers are "set and forget" non adjustable units) will provide some efficiency gains and thus performance. With my current 3spd automatic and 2.73 gears, I'm going to consider an RV or milder street cam choice to keep the power a little lower in the rpm band to accommodate the tall gears. I'll probably cap it all off with an Edelbrock 600-700 cfm 4bbl carb, and stick with the long tube headers I currently run on the 289. Some new 2.5" exhaust with an "X" pipe should round out the package.

I'm starting my build around a low mileage early 90's truck engine that I scored for free. I'm hoping its new enough to have the HO 351 with a roller top-end, but I'm unsure if that setup was ever offered in a 3/4 ton truck. Either way, its on the back burner for now, as everything is buried in 7' of snow...lol

[JimC]

We're expecting a lot of snow tonight. Possibly as much as 1/4 inch. I'm ready for summer.

I want to do a sleeper as well. The 67 was my daughter's 16th birthday present 18 years ago. In 9 years, she plans to give it to my grandson for his 16th. It presently has 2.73 gearing, which I prefer as well. I'd like to do an AOD transmission, but I don't know yet which one. You have any thoughts on that? The car is a coupe with a deluxe interior. The heater has gone out, so I am replacing it with an in-dash a/c unit Gave her the deluxe in-dash vents and a/c controls for Christmas. Am also refurbing the swing-away part of the tilt steering, and got her a Retrosound Model 2 radio for her birthday so she can blue tooth her music to the stereo. I've put power windows in the doors, switched by the stock window handles (that gets a rise out of folks the first time they try to roll the windows down). Will be doing the same for the rear quarters, but it looks like I'll have to hand build the switches to accept the stock window handles back there. Since I'm getting a bit long in the tooth, I'm starting to focus on doing a daily driver restoration now rather than later. We don't want or need a show car.

[Master Yota]

I'm of similar mind set. I want a driver instead of a show car. There isn't much that confuses me more than the financial investment into a rockin' great vehicle, only to have it ride around in trailer. I figure save a bunch of cash, and have something I can drive around in and enjoy.
I'm downright envious of the tilt/swing-away steering, that's a rare option! And super expensive to swap in according to my research. I didn't get the deluxe interior, but rather the base model, with no tilt (sigh) and no console either. But I do enjoy the "double take" I get from viewers when they comment on my bucket seats, only to realize its actually a split bench...

As for an OD trans, I would expect the non-electronic AOD would be the easiest to install, unless you like the wiring that's needed for the AODE to function. Either way, both transmissions are basically the same, other than the electronic shift control on the newer units. Both transmissions are available with either a close, or wide ratio gear setup. The primary difference being a lower first gear in the wide ratio setup.
I'm not really convinced yet that the 2.73's really need an overdrive, but I don't have the tach. option in my car, so I don't know if there is room for the cruising rpm to come down without sacrificing drive-ability. I live in hill country, so I tend to doubt it. If I lived in the prairies it might be different story. I'm getting very reasonable mileage with the 2bbl. 289 right now, and ok performance so I'd be hard pressed to feel desperate for an OD transmission.

[JimC]

ALL the tilt wheels are also swing-aways. It only took me 18 years to realize that. Nothing slow about me. Biggest expense in restoring my tilt-away is replacing the rusted out under-fender vacuum canister and a missing vacuum check valve. 68 tilt-aways seem to be a lot more expensive than 67. I have both the floor and overhead consoles.

I'm more into antique airplanes than automobiles, so don't know much about AOD transmissions. What are the advantages and downside of the electronic shift control?

[tbone1004]

plusses and minus' are similar to the EFI vs. Carb discussion. The electronic shift control as I understand it means the transmission shifts are controlled by the computers instead of just the hydraulic pressures. The biggest thing is to make sure it's got a lockup torque converter to limit parasitic losses. If you're going to EFI on the engine you may as well go with an electronic transmission, if you're staying carb I don't think you can put an electronic shift in there. Unless of course that you are treating it as a sequential shift unit where you control all of the shifting. I'm not an expert on auto trannies but that's how I understand it to work

[JimC]

I'll be staying carb. The sequential shifting sort of reminds me of my 55A Thunderbird. 3 speed Fordomatic with a 2 position selector.
If you put it in Drive, it starts off in 2nd and shifts itself to 3rd.
If you put it into Low, it starts in 1st and when you shift to Drive, it shifts to 3rd.
If you pop from Low to Drive and back to Low, it shifts to 2nd and stays there until you shift back to Drive again, at which time it shifts to 3rd. I always thought that was neat.

[tbone1004]

that sounds insanely confusing to learn how to drive properly... The sequential is actually what the semi manufacturers are moving to because it still allows the drivers to control when everything shifts but because there is a torque converter and what not it allows the lightning fast shifts only possible with an automatic as well as the lack of power loss because the driveline isn't being disconnected.

[JimC]

I've owned that car for 45 years. I'd call it insanely simple

It's no more confusing than downshifting the 37 without clutching it, also pretty fast.

[Master Yota]

The early AOD-E transmission didn't have all that much for electronic controls and I'm not even positive if it had an actual computer to control it. IMS the Electronic part functioned more in activating the od gear itself with a button on the shifter. The previous AOD shifted like a normal 3spd automatic, and the od (or 4th gear) would engage when a certain hydraulic line pressure was reached. IMS the AOD is a lockup torque converter transmission, which precludes some sort of electrical switch that will be tied into the brake light switch (to inform the converter to unlock so the engine doesn't stall when coming to a stop). With the previous non electric AOD all the functions concerning the od and lockup were based on hydraulic pressure.

Also, I'm not sure when Ford may have changed over from a mechanical speedometer drive to an electric VSS type unit. The VSS uses a tone-ring and a magnet to generate a pulse, which the speedo converts into an analog readout on the gauge... Naturally, I'd prefer the mechanical version, although the electric may be a requirement for EFI...

[JimC]

Are the Hipo exhaust for the 351 the same as for the 289?